Rest assured this isn't another choose my car thread, but having spent the afternoon buried in What Car, Test Drive and various websites, one question is plaguing me.
At what point does it make economical sense to switch to diesel? 20,000 miles per year, 30,000+ or as little as 10,000? The initial price of the new car is higher and the diesel itself is more expensive (I think - sure it was last time I looked) but it lasts longer. There must be some kind of cut off point, and I'm sure someone somewhere has done the sums!
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I think it's around 15-18,000.
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Broadly I agree with Adam - but you can try doing the sums and it will be only a rough guide, because of the unknowns involved:
- depreciation: at the moment most diesel cars hold their value better than petrol, but we don't know how this will go in the next few years
- the price of diesel v. petrol - heaven knows it varies enbough at the moment, from 1p to 5p more, let alone in the future
- the car you choose - some diesels cost a little more than their petrol equivalents (and what is the equivalent anyway?), some a lot more. When I had a Golf TDI estate, there was no SE trim available in the top petrol engine as there was in the diesel. The 1.8 T had to be a Sport which cost the same as the 1.9 TDI SE.
And for you, going by your previous thread, the sums are up the Swannee anyway as some but not all of your costs are going to be borne by your employers.
Because the calculations are so fraught (accountancy isn't a science: if it were I should never have qualified!), I go for a diesel not so much for financial reasons (for the 18,000 or so miles that I do per annum there isn't much in it) but because the torque at the bottom end suits my driving style (relaxed but like to get a move on).
Sorry - I'm not sure that's been very helpful...you asked for someone who had done the sums and here I am saying the sums don't mean that much. It's accountancy's equivalent of someone suggesting a Mondeo TDCI when you're trying to decide between a Skoda and a Honda.
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- the price of diesel v. petrol - heaven knows it varies enbough at the moment, from 1p to 5p more, let alone in the future
It is also price of fuel per se. Even if derv is 4-5% more expensive than petrol, but the price of petrol and diesel is at a record high, then the balance swings more in favour of diesel.
In the US there is v. little market for diesel cars.
For company car drivers the balance still favours diesel. All these complaints that there is little difference in road tax burden for gas guzzlers miss the point: for a large chunk of Co. drivers there is a massive difference the potential tax burden. It is maybe why BMW sell more 3 series in UK than Ford sells Mondeos (heavy discounting favours private buyers over Company car drivers as you are taxed on the list price).
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In the order of 95,000 miles. Spread over the years as you wish. So you'll become economically viable when you hit that mileage; although that ignores opportunity cost of purchase (either the interest in borrowing or the missing interest on deposit).
Theoretically that takes into account differing fuel prices, depreciation, MPG, servicing, and purchase price. Who knows if it is accurate, but the paper was convincing.
Obviously it generalises between vehicles and so can't be completely accurate, neither is depreciation linear. However, its probably not a bad guide.
i.e. Buy a diesel, run it for 3 years at 35,000 mpa and you'll have done the right thing.
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Also depends what your current car gets, surely? I switched from a car doing 20mph to one doing nearly 50, reckon I've got more than my money's worth from my car.
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Petrol or diesel, not steam or pedal!
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Petrol or diesel, not steam or pedal!
:^D Heh
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I'd say 12000 but no lower. Putting aside pure economics for a moment, anyone doing 12000+ per year must be doing a fair amount of motorway driving, which is where diesels excel. Also, something a lot of cost/benefit breakdowns of petrol v diesel seem to forget is that the higher cost of purchasing the diesel equivalent is paid back in the ease of sale/ higher residual values of diesels.
I run a diesel on about 20,000 a year, and love it to bits, but will never get my wife a diesel for her 5000 a year.
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Remember if you take your car to Ireland or the Continent,you will find diesel is much cheaper than petrol.
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regardless of spurious/inaccurate/wrong/ill informed claims as to when is the best time (finacially) to switch to diesel - you may choose to drink from the black pump because you prefer diesel motoring - I certainly do.
MTC
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Autoexpress did an article on this taking one model from each sector and trying to establish which where the break even point was. It was pretty interesting as some smaller cars had really high pay back mileage, but bigger cars had smaller ones - I guess due to the already high MPG being gained on small engine cars?
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I do less than 10k pa, and can justify my 405 TD very easily. I do a few kids taxi runs - but still >40 mpg. When I do a 250 mile day I'm getting 45 mpg, and it's a good drive on fast dual/m-way, and it gets me to the airport and back just as fast as a car costing 40x as much.
It owes me £900, but it's in top condition so will sell any day of the week if I get bored of it. Good ones regularly get over £800 on ebay. For £500-600 I could have got a good petrol model, which would do about 32 mpg, but I save about £300 pa on fuel.
I'm fortunate in that I don't need a car for "company image" as my customers are all in the US and Canada.
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Likewise, we do relatively low annual mileage of around 8000 miles pa in our TDCI Mondeo (the joys of train commuting into London during the week!). Although it may have made *slightly* better sense to save a few quid and get the 2.0 petrol, I just love the driving dynamics of the diesel. The relaxed gearing and satisfying surge when the boost comes on at 1800rpm still puts a smile on my face...
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regardless of spurious/inaccurate/wrong/ill informed claims as to when is the best time (finacially) to switch to diesel - you may choose to drink from the black pump because you prefer diesel motoring - I certainly do.
You will certainly make less pit stops with diesel, one practical advantage regardless of the economics.
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"At what point does it make economical sense to switch to diesel?"
As usual, everyone is considering only the money, because it is easier to quantify - though this thread shows even that is not simple. What *is* certain is that by going diesel you are using up your own personal oil supply more slowly, however many miles you do. But if you don't think green, that is irrelevant I suppose ...
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What *is* certain is that by going diesel youare using up your own personal oil supply more slowly, however many miles you do. But if you don't think green, that is irrelevant I suppose ...
If you're thinking green, then if all others things are equal, you'd keep the car you've got to save the environmental impact created by a new one being produced, regardless of the fuel it uses.
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"If all other things are equal, you'd keep the car you've got to save the environmental impact created by a new one being produced, regardless of the fuel it uses".
Quite so. But the argument goes that that car will be built whether you buy it or not. Mine just assumes the purchase of another car, petrol or diesel, new or used.
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> But the argument goes that that car will be built whether you buy it or not.
& Labour will get back in whether you vote or not; and members of the 'oldest profession' will continue to haunt King's Cross whether they're used or not.
Nonsense, sorry.
Eventually all those unsold cars will mount up and they'll stop making as many. Show some moral fibre & social responsibility & drive a 'banger'.
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"Show some moral fibre & social responsibility & drive a 'banger'."
My car is a 99 and wife's is a 2000, and I have never yet bought a new car. I have always believed in the dung-beetle car-owning society. But, being socially responsible, are you sure your bangers use less fuel more cleanly than a new car?
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Irrelevant...keeping an old car or buying second hand is far more 'green' than buying new. The costs of production and 'whole of life' costs must be taken into account for 'greenness'. An old Mondeo V6 (say 1999) bought now and run for three years is far more green than buying a new TDCi and more economical.
The Derv v Petrol cash question only comes into play if you are buying a new car and must buy a new car. For the rest of us, buy what want, what suits your pocket, lifestyle etc etc.
Thats why we have a Subaru Forester XT for my 8,000 suburban miles pa and my wife has a diesel Trajet for her kids rota and family trips doing just over 10,000 miles pa.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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