Hi Guys,
Maybe someone can throw some light on this one:
I own a 2001 Mitsubishi Galant 2.0 TD, this afternoon I set off and went up the gears as normal, however on trying to change down from 3rd to 2nd (and 2nd to 1st) I found that I could not engage the gear that I wanted.
There is no crunching, it is just physicallly impossible to select the gear. Once I come to a stop (or dip the clutch a number of times) I can get the gear I was looking for.
The car has a hydraulic clutch so I bled that, however this did not solve the problem.
Has anybody experienced this, any suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks, Stephen
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This is a typical side effect of the clutch dragging. Check the normal bite position of the clutch when stationary in the drive in first gear also hold the clutch pedal in a position where the clutch is just not dragging and see if you have a master cylinder leak and the bite point slowly creaps in. Regards Peter
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Peter,
Thanks for your reply, I will try this.
Can I ask what you to clarify what you mean by the clutch dragging?
I am unable to engage 2nd or 1st gear, the gearstick physically will not select the gears, 3rd 4th and 5th are no problem.
I have just spoken to the main mitsubishi dealer who said that the gearbox syncromesh always go on the galant leading to this type of symptom.As you can imagine I am trying to check all area's before blaiming the gearbox.
Thanks,
Stephen
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Ok sit in the car with the engine running press clutch and quickly engage 1st gear, do this 10 times and repaet for second gear. When you at stionary and deliberated doing atest you tend to press the clutcg down further than you do then changing gear so be aware of of thet and try and make a normal clutch depression. Now if the car goes cleanly into gear everytime and you have conduted the the bite position test and the creep test then it does not sound like a clutch dragging problem. Come back with the results and tell us how many miles you have done. Worn syncromesh does not dent to lock you out but will cause a chunkly gear change particularly down the box. There are some dynamics involved in the clutch assemble that can alter with speed so you will need to do the the gear engagement test at tick over and at 2,500 rpm ish. However even then it is not an absolute test as the out put shaft of the gearbox is not turning and as you have found when you get locked out if you stop the car it will engage again. A modern gearbox runs with permanently engaged gears and what you are doing with the gearstick is sliding engagement rings over dog teeth that losk a particular gear to the output shaft ( Simplified ). This sliding selector ring presses a conical syncro ring against the potentially selected gear and spins the the input shaft ( well via the Layshaft ) up to the speed of the rotating gear and the selector ring engages the dog teeth and the drive is established. ( reverse is often not done like this. ) Did this problem just appear one day on 1 & 2nd or has it been getting gradually worse. Regards Peter
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Do you know how to 'double de clutch' i.e. change gear by going from say 3rd into neutral engage clutch blip the throttle clutch down into 2nd clutch up. If so try whis whilst out on the road.
I have read your post again and it appears that the fault just started out of the blue. Assuming this car has a direct gear change i.e. not cables or loads of complicated linkages then is does suggest a clutch problem. The clutch has anti shock springs and a broken one of these can in some designs cause the plate to not disengage symetrically, as does broken diagphram fingers or a delaminating friction material. These can have much greater effect when the input shaft is rotating and little effect when it is not i.e. stationary. In addition in the possibility of a worn spline cause the clutch to be tempremental at disengaging but I would expect that to come on gradually and after a million miles.
What else. Well as you have a problem with 1st & 2nd it is possible that the selector ring which is common to those two gears is being block the the selector interlock in the bos. This is a protection device that stops you accidently engageing two gears at the same time. To at least test part of this drive on a quite road and change up to 2nd then down to 1st then up then down again and again perhaps getting up to 20mph in second and slowing to 10 mph for 1st. If this works with no problem then it is not the clutch but a selector problem. Now go up to third and try and back to second if you get locked out then you may have a problem. Come back with results. Regards Peter
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Clutch drag is when the clutch does not fully release and is still in contact the flywheel, therefore the synchromesh can't do its job so easily as it is trying to change the speed of the engine rather than just the gearbox input shaft. If you can still select 1st gear easily once stopped at traffic lights etc, then I would be less sure about it being clutch drag
I don't know much technical stuff about gearboxes but it seems odd that 2 gears have developed a problem at the same time while the other 3 are fine.
When you say they will not engage, how long did you try for? Will it go in if you just apply moderate pressure to the stick for a few seconds?
Have you have the gearbox oil changed recently? If not that might help a little bit.
When changing down to 2nd or 1st , try to rev the engine up so its rpm is equal or just above what it will be doing in the gear your about to select and then release and reapply the clutch pedal just before selecting the gear, that way the synchromesh has to do very little work as the input shaft is already up to speed. E.g. if changing to 2nd at 20mph you might rev it to 1900 - 2100 rpm
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ah sorry Peter, started typing before you'd replyed and forgot to check you hadn't replied before posting.
Your post is undoubtedly more informed than mine
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In addition to the tests wisely suggested by Peter D, try this;
During the downchanges, double de-clutch, and match the engine revs to the new gear. If you find that this helps gear selection, it points towards worn synchromesh.
However, the good news is that if it is worn synchromesh, you can simply adapt your driving style, by double de-clutching and matching the revs every time.
Number_Cruncher
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Fella's,
Thank you all for your replies, I will be taking the car out later this afternoon and will try some of your suggestions to try to work out the exact problem - I will let you know the outcome.
Unfortunately I only took over ownership of the car yesterday so I am unable to say whether the problem has just started or not, however I would judge that the car has had the problem for sometime.
Once again thank you for your help so far.
Stephen
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Well where did you buy it. Is it fit for purpose, did you test drive it. How many miles on the clock. ?? Regards Peter
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Guys,
I tried out a number of your suggestions, only double de clutching allowed me to find 2nd gear.
Should I take it that the syncro is worn as suggested??
Peter, in answer to your suggestion regarding fit for purpose etc - I bought the car from auction sold as seen - I buy from auction quite a lot and have had a good run of vehicles recently which have not needed any work on them, so the odd car which does need work does not bother me.
Thanks,
Stephen
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>>Should I take it that the syncro is worn as suggested??
I don't know if this model of car has synchromesh on reverse gear. If it doesn't, then, when you try to select reverse gear, if the clutch is dragging, the gearbox will crunch.
If you find that the clutch isn't dragging, then I think that it is likely that the synchromesh on the problematic gears has worn - however, diagnosis over the internet isn't exactly foolproof!
If the car were mine, I would simply adapt my driving style and forget it.
Number_Cruncher
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Mitsi synchro is well-known for being a little 'weak' - the synchro units themselves are quite small diameter. IIRC they use double-cone synchro's on 1st and 2nd. They are not great even when brand new (rather 'notchy').
A big improvement can be obtained by changing the gearbox oil to a 70W-80 GL-4 (rather than the 75W-90 that's in there now). Redline Oils MTL will do the job, Morris Lubricants also make a suitably thin oil.
Mitsi's are usually much worse when cold (first few miles) and in cold weather. Also synchro usually feels worse on the upshift than the downshift for some reason.
They are an easy gearbox to rebuild - all held together by snap rings. They synchro's IIRC are around £70 for the components per gear.
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