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I love the design of some French cars but am reluctant to part with hard earned as I hear so many bad stories about quality. Mate has a Scenic, 46,000mls... engine knackered with shot pistons. Auto gearboxes on Renaults..did HJ highlight this? last about three years. Any info welcome.
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The family has done about 150k miles in new renaults since 2000
total result across three new cars
1 seat belt switch
1 clutch master cylinder
1 sun roof repaired
1 sun roof still rattling.
They are shocking.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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The fact that French Police have now opted for Subaru patrol vehicles says it all.!!!! Quite an admission from such a patriotic nation that their own are just not up to Japanese/eastern standards of reliability.
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French cars..good or not?
Not.
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Boring. You asked exactly the same question last December.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=37...8
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Boring. You asked exactly the same question last December. www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=37...8
>>
And the answer is still the same ---- NOT !
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I am sorry to have bored you but I find French cars very interesting and judging by the response to the question so do many other backroomers.
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assuming they turn up to work to make them...no.
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Being a 4x4 was one of the criteria for selection, apparently. The french don't make 4x4's.
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"Quite an admission from such a patriotic nation that their own are just not up to Japanese/eastern standards of reliability."
I think it was more of a performance gap than a reliability issue. Ask yourself who owns Nissan ! Not that I am defender of l'automobile Francais.
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You do stick up for them TVM and you are correct to a point.
The acid test will be how your VW holds up after a few years
The Laguna that I have had to put up with over the last 7 months was appalling and was one of the factors in me gaining employment elsewhere (hence a name change in this forum)
I can now push the ignition card right through the housing and past the point of no return thanks to the poor dashboard fit and finish and plastic that would disgrace a childs toy
Everything rattles, the seat, cupholder, ashtray and top bit of the dash are the main ones
For sure they are safe but many times I would have traded a ENCAP star for reliability. Elecrical gremlins were there almost every day from minor ones such as windows choosing to stop working for short times to the engine sticking at 2000 rpm going up a steep hill on a busy dual carriageway
On my sisters Laguna the engine had to be replaced after 2 years
Various other ones at my now old work have had faults such as 4 gearboxes on the same vehicle in 2 years. One new box never even made it out of the repair shop
The various Pugs that I have driven were alright but again you just know there are better cars for the same cash/tax out there
That is why given the choice I will never have a Renault again
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File with:
Windows or Linux
Beatles or Stones
Lager or Bitter
Diesel or Petrol
Gay or Straight
My point is, however good or bad French cars are (I've found them good over the last ten years) buying something you don't really want is guaranteed to bring unhappiness. It is also a complete waste of your hard-earned.
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With Renaults they look good on the outside and given a choice I could well have chosen one before I inherited this one
Its only when you have spent a long time in a car that you can start seeing the faults and when you know that other manufacturers can do better for the same money/company car tax rate or less then it becomes an issue.
I thank the stars I never parted with my own cash
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Anyone know when the Peugeot 207 is being released in the UK?
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Anyone know when the Peugeot 207 is being released in the UK?
June 2006. See HJ's roadtest.
--
Was Charles {P} but someone c o p i e d my name with spaces.
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Agreed, most do not wear at all well, but there is one shining star, the 205. They don't rust, they ride well, and they are fairly easy to maintain. I still see plenty round here.
I've now got a 405, which in the right hands are good too - but they may not take as much abuse.
We had a R5 from new, and it was a dog - points got damp the minute it looked like rain.
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3x xm's 2x c5's no real problems at all ,1xLaguna 1.9dci a total disaster we also have a 406 with over 500k still going strong on veg oil.
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Or simply file with Deliberate Trolls
Chris Muriel, Manchester
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I have a french car (54 reg Citroen C3) and a Japanese one (R reg Nissan Almera). For the sake of pedant avoidance, the Almera is pre Renault and was built in Japan.
The Nissan in 68,000 miles and 9 years has had no trim come adrift with the exception of the parcel shelf which is attached in a really silly way. The car is original apart from a new battery. We have honestly had no issues with the car at all, and we have owned it since 1999.
The Citroen is 18 months old and a lovely car to drive around in. I really like the interior. Unfortunately I have 5 bits of plastic in the glovebox that have fallen off here and there from seat mounts and the like. The car defintely does not stand up to my kids! The armrests and central thingy by the handbrake are noticely flimsly. I will not put the rear seats down anymore because one time the seat back would not latch back onto the catch. The electrics are ok so far, although it went through a phase of unlocking itself.
Just my experience. It hasn't put me off Citroens per se (the dealer did that), and I'd have another, but I would just be aware that the trim is not as well put together as the Almera.
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Like most cars, it surely must depend on the particular make and model. I had two Citroen ZXs and my only criticism was that some parts were a bit flimsy ~ for example the dipstick bracket fractured on my Volcane after about a year. The heater had to be removed to enable the bracket to be replaced!
I don't think you can lump all French cars together any more than you can cars from any other country.
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L\'escargot.
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I can only offer the following from my personal experience:
1. J-reg. Peugeot 205 1.1, bought second-hand, 30,000 on the clock, kept 3 years, covered approx. 60,000 miles. Problems: knackered distributor, failed fuel pump, navy-blue paintwork seriously deteriorated. Plus points: original battery, clutch, exhaust, very frugal, fun to drive.
2. Peugeot 306 X-reg HDi, bought second-hand 2 years ago, 30,000 on the clock, now up to 65,000. Problems: new front disks, fuel filters seriously mucky when bought, indicator switch erratic. Plus points: original battery, exhaust, clutch, great to drive, 52 mpg.
3. Other half's T-reg 306 HDi estate, bought second-hand 3 years ago, 40,000 on the clock, now up to 60,000. Problems: heavy clutch (sticky cable?), failed windscreen washer pump. Plus points: original battery, exhaust, clutch.
4. Other half's daughter's V-reg 306 HDi, bought second-hand 1 year ago, can't remember mileages. Problems: exhaust pipe fractured near cat, windscreen wiper motor partial failure, battery failed last week.
Overall, I don't feel this is too bad.
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Recently sold my wife's 9 year old Clio after keeping it for 8 years. Yes we did have some problems but nothing indivdually very expensive. The sun roof had to be resealed (caused water damage to central locking sensor), replace the sensor for TDC as caused starting problems, broken throttle cable, broken ignition barrel, broken front springs, leaky water pump replaced. When added up it still comes to a tidy sum on items that should not have failed.
Unfortunately also had poor and expensive servicing from franchised dealers for 5 years. Once told brakes had 70% remaining and front discs broke up 3 days later. Renault are also well known to be generous in the book time for service jobs, many can be completed in two thirds of book time by a good mechanic.
It was a good car to drive and surprisingly rattle free when we sold it, even the new buyer commented on both.
My wife hated it towards the end and wondered if it was going to breakdown again. She would never consider buying a French car again, finally settling for a Kia Rio.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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Oh I forgot
I did 60k miles from new in a 405 GRD (xud engine no turbo)
Engine earth strap came loose
Fuel Tank breather system clogged up with something that appeared to escape from the Quatermass experiment. (the french would probably cook it)
Comfortable and frugal.
Another complete dog from France - Such rubbish
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I often mention this whenever this topic comes up.
I'm not the biggest fan of French cars but my mate's Clio 172 was hammered to within an inch of it's life and not one thing went wrong bar a sidelight bulb going. When I mean hammered, I mean hammered. Often revving it enough to knock it into neutral. It often liked to take off over the occasional hump-back bridge too.
Mind you, I've seen it said before that the special ones seem to be built very well indeed.
Renault is probably the only French car I'd buy.
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Renault is probably the only French car I'd buy.
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If you had been the age you are now, say 15 to 20 years ago Adam, I wonder what your opinion would have been about a 205 GTI compared to a Fiesta XR2?
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I would have and still would choose the 205 GTI but that is a rare exception to the rule.
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I would have and still would choose the 205 GTI but that is a rare exception to the rule.
Someone I used to know complained about a 205 Junior that his wife had, saying that it was underpowered compared to the XR2 that they replaced it with. A rather unfair comparison, I think!
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Well Barney, guess you got your answer from these responses:
French cars are ALL rubbish.
Japanese cars are getting more stylish, so the best of both worlds, no need to consider French.
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Er....I've just given you at least one good reason why all French cars aren't rubbish.
Japanese cars, unless you get something completely different like a Skyline, Supra etc have no soul whether they look good or not.
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Did all of the posts claim that French cars are ALL rubbish? I don't think so!
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In the Auto Express 2006 satisfaction survey, IIRC a few french cars came above Mercedes and Saab in the reliability chart, yet no one would say those makes were unreliable.
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All French cars are not rubbish.
All manufacturers produce duds and perhaps some go through a fase where the construction of there vehicles is not great
To completely contradict myself I would still love an Alfa 156/9 over its more mundane rivals such as a 3 series,A4 or high end 407 or Mondeo when I know that potentially it could all go horribly wrong
Its when the mix includes a poorly made car and a lack of character that it gets disappointing. In my case the Laguna
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Look machika. Look - LOOK! I was sticking up for them! Me! Adam! Sticking up for French cars!
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Look machika. Look - LOOK! I was sticking up for them! Me! Adam! Sticking up for French cars!
Don't get too carried away Adam. It was just Renaults you were sticking up for, I believe.
Actually, the Renault Clio that my wife had a few years ago was the worst of the French cars that we have had. It had a persistent immobiliser fault, that caused my wife to use the breakdown cover that we have on more than one occasion, during the short time we had the car. It was passed on to my stepson and the ECU packed up before he got shot of it.
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I can't win!
::Walks off shaking head::
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Japanese cars are getting more stylish
when's that going to happen then? Lets have a look
Mazda comes close (ish) on the outside but the "Interior Design by Amstrad" ruins it.
Unless you include sports cars, the rest of the japanese range is as stylish amnd desirable as my used underpants.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I don't like it when we say the same thing RF. It usually either means you're humouring me only to make some cutting jibe at the most unexpected moment or that something is very, very wrong with the world.
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Not at all Adam, Its nice to see that a french car can even stir the soul of a sad nerd like you.
Damn - I just cant help myself. slap slap slap
Still its worth the pain.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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You've been surprisingly restrained recently so you can have that one.
In fact, have two more but try not to hit yourself too hard - I'd hate for you to hurt yourself at my expense.
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This is the old stereotype argument. Completely unfounded, except that:
Heaven is where the chefs are French, the police British, the mechanics German, the lovers Italian and it is run by the Swiss;
Hell is where the chefs are British, the police German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and it is all run by the Italians.
:-)
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I thought instead of mechanics it was plumbers...
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Similar experiences to TVM. To date 160k+ miles in 3 Renaults owned since 1996 - no problems, breakdowns or unscheduled visits to Dealers unless you include slightly buzzy radio reception on the 1998 Scenic - replaced immediately under warranty.
All of our Rennnies have been owned from new and I suspect that they prefer to be serviced regularly. In other words, their tolerance to skipping the odd couple of thousand miles between services may not be as good as a Toyota or Nissan.
_______
IanS
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This is the old stereotype argument. Completely unfounded, except that: Heaven is where the chefs are French, the police British, the mechanics German, the lovers Italian and it is run by the Swiss; Hell is where the chefs are British, the police German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and it is all run by the Italians. :-)
:^D I like that.
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Like everything else a car manufacturer's products are as good as the people they employ in that era, regardless of the country of origin.
--
L\'escargot.
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Good
If a bit flimsy at times. But flimsy doesn't necessarily mean unreliable. My BX GTI was flimsy, but only let me down once in 100,000, due to a failed clutch cable.
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I reckon I've done about 300K in Renaults. In all these miles I have never been left stranded at the side of the road. Sure I've had some problems along the way, but nothing that has stopped me getting to where I need to go. They are not perfect, some things need more investment but the basic mechanics I have found to be very durable. When things have gone wrong, the dealer has diagnosed the problem and fixed it rapidly.
More than anything what matters is having a good dealer.
I am looking at the new Laguna 2.0dCi Tourer. 175bhp sounds like fun to me.
Don't under estimate Ghosn, he's well known in the industry for being a fixer. Look what he did to Nissan financially.
I have very limited experience of modern Peugeots or Citroens.
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What a load of carp people talk when their prejudices show (I include myself here).
There's nothing whatsoever wrong with 'French cars' as such. As with cars from other sources, depends on the model and the example.
Sadly to me, cars are getting more alike all the time and their 'national characteristics' becoming steadily more muted. In the fifties, French cars were characterised by high final gearing and softish but grippy suspension, suitable for French distances and road surfaces.
'Flimsiness' is a subjective judgement. 2-cylinder Citroens were 'flimsy' in a way, but had a sinewy quality in their innards. Same with the Peugeot 205 I had some years ago: you could dent the door panel above the handle with your thumb, but the engine and gearbox were good for anything.
French cars are just as good as any other nation's cars. Matter of taste only.
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>> 'Flimsiness' is a subjective judgement. 2-cylinder Citroens were 'flimsy' in a way, but had a sinewy quality in their innards.
French cars are just as good as any other nation's cars. Matter of taste only.
>>
Indeed.
My 2CV started up this week after standing completely unused for 2.5 years, after only 15 secs turning and judicious juggling of the throttle and choke (remember them?). The only preparation was a fully charged battery.
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Warranty direct 2005:
Honda: 9.9 claims per 100 cars
Mazda: 10.7 claims per 100 cars
Toyota: 12.9 claims per 100 cars
...
Peugeot: 30.8 claims per 100 cars
Citroen: 38 claims per 100 cars
Renault: 38.4 claims per 100 cars
Full list here: www.whatcar.com/NonCar/13105544635.jpg
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Yes and look at some of the makes that are LOWER - Saab, Land Rover, Audi - all far more expensive cars. BMW at 34 claims per 100 is nothing to write home about either.
Also there's a difference between a car being 'unreliable' and 'troublesome'. I have found my cars to be extremely reliable in so far as they've not left me on the hard shoulder, bonnet up etc. Occasionally troublesome yes, but not unreliable.
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In my experience one of the things which can result in inferior products these days is employers allowing designers too much power too soon, particularly if they are using CAD (computer aided design), without first insisting that they gain a sense of dimensional proportion and knowledge of custom and practice by coming up through the ranks. Whether the system in Japan, China, Korea etc is different from what it is in Europe I don?t know. I suspect that it is.
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L\'escargot.
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I've had 3 Renaults a 18GTS, 11TXE ELectronic & a 25 V6,
The first & last were total disasters & the 11 apart from a few foibles was OK.
My wifes Toyota recently went in for accident repair & she was lent the bodyshops Laguna on an X plate (S2?). It went quite well but was far too soft for it's own good & stodgy steering that was springy around the centre. Which I remember when we used to have them as hire cars.
It was also a complete heap with trim falling off everywhere, zillions of rattles. My Alfa 156 was an X plate as well and that was rock solid compared with this.
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In my experience one of the things which can result in inferior products these days is employers allowing designers too much power too soon, particularly if they are using CAD (computer aided design), without first insisting that they gain a sense of dimensional proportion and knowledge of custom and practice by coming up through the ranks. Whether the system in Japan, China, Korea etc is different from what it is in Europe I don?t know. I suspect that it is. -- L\'escargot.
If you want to stifle creativity and innovation in the design office, your approach is perfect. Anyone who is any good will flee to somewhere where they can actually make a difference rather than simply repeat what has gone before.
The important thing to put in place to ensure that you get reasonable products is a rigourous and well thought out test programme.
If you want your designers to innovate, save cost, and save weight, you can't punish them when their designs fail; you must continue to encourage and support them.
In my experience, custom and practice has hindered many companies, and has prevented them seeing how to get over their problems and hurdles. So, they have had to hire in outside consultancies to do their thinking for them without the inherited blinkers on.
Number_Cruncher
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Peugeot paintwork and body resistance to rust - very good. FAR better than Ford.
General mechanical design - ease of maintenance: poor.MUCH worse than Ford.
My local garage who do repairs on older models (ie. 5 years old and more- out of main dealer network) swear at : all Fiats (rear supsension and wiring) all Peugeots and Citroens (try changing the front disk pads on a corroded and neglected 106 and you'll see what he means)
and they don't get many German or Japanese cars to repair..
Which I suggest says something about design and longevity.
madf
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If you want to stifle creativity and innovation in the design office .....
OK, I'll remove the part that you don't agree with, and expand on the rest.
In my experience one of the things which can result in inferior products these days is employers allowing designers too much power too soon, particularly if they are using CAD (computer aided design), without first insisting that they gain a sense of dimensional proportion and experience by coming up through the ranks. Being adept at operating a CAD computer does not by itself make a good designer. It encourages badly proportioned designs which are then hustled through to the production stage by the process of simultaneous engineering.
Let me give you an example. I have a petrol mower, the engine of which was made by a company generally thought of as being eminently reputable. Shortly after I got it the carburettor started to leak from one chamber to another because the diaphragm had pulled out from between one of the clamping lands, and the diaphragm had to be replaced. The service engineer stated that on occasions they had had to replace the diaphragm on brand new machines for the self same reason. They gave me the original diaphragm back and the problem was immediately obvious ~ the width of the sealing lands was far too narrow, and the diaphragm barely mated up with the metal parts. It was quite clear that the designer was young, had little experience of the real engineering world and no sense of proportion whatsoever ~ but undoubtedly was adept at using a CAD computer to produce a very complex shape. He had been given too much power and responsibility too soon. I'm not blaming him, I'm blaming his employer for not insisting that he acquire practical experience of engineering products first before giving him free rein.
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L\'escargot.
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It was quite clear that the designer was young,
How on Gods earth can you draw that conclusion.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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It was quite clear that the designer was young, How on Gods earth can you draw that conclusion.
OK, delete "was young,".
I think I just have to accept that I am not sufficiently articulate to be able to get my point across and I'll leave it at that.
--
L\'escargot.
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Hi L'escargot,
I think I know what you are getting at - I suspect we've all seen examples of naff design. I would stop short of saying that it's an age or experience thing though. A lot of people talk about having X years of experience, but really it is one year's worth of experience repeated X times!
The poor designs I've seen are where designers (of any age) aren't effectively managed by good systems engineers *and* where there hasn't been sufficient imagination used during the definition of the qualification/acceptance tests.
For the benefit of those who don't know about the distinction, systems engineers are the ones who do the performance analysis, and understand how things *really* work. They then ask the designers to come up with a physical interpretation of this.
Put another way, the designers understand the 3D geometry, and the availability of standard off the shelf parts, and how things might be made on the shop floor, but tend not to be able to do the necessary stress and/or performance calculations to give the design a fighting chance to pass its qualification/acceptance tests.
Number_Cruncher
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I would say about average. I have had 2 pug 106's from new, only problem was with the first one on an M plate, had the alarm/immobliser pack up after 13 months, and had to have new front springs as it was lopped sided, they also had to fit new callipers as it was pulling to the left, other 106 had no trouble with. Then had a J plate 406 GTXI, that was a good fun car - only thing to go wrong was the coil, had it for about 3 years. Then had a Pug 406 2ltr Executive as a company car, That liked to drink!!! But nothing went wrong with it in the 2 years I had it. More recently was the Laguna, she was on an M plate with 96k when I got her, in a little under 20k and 3.5 years she has had to have a new exhaust and 2 new coils, a new pas cooler pipe, new door membranes, new bonnet catches, new reversing light switch oh and a new front spring - so all in all not too bad as far as breakdowns and replacement parts - but the build qualty on the Renault was the worst out of all the cars we have owned, it looked far worse after 96k then out Honda Prelude does after 181k. We are now sticking to Honda's, much better value ;o)
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Sorry to be a bit boring and predictable but I suppose the Customer Satisfaction surveys say it all really.
Latest is the Autoexpress Driver Power Survey.
Out of 37 Manufacturers Peugeot ranked 36th, Renault 32nd and Citreon 30th.
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I have said the same thing in other threads in this forum, so sorry to bore you folks again, but I have owned/driven French cars for an unbroken period of almost 19 years. They are/were two 309s, a ZX, a Xantia, a Clio and a C5. As you will know, the Xantia is still with us and I still love it.
The build quality of the 309s and ZX was not great but they were lovely cars to drive, with super ride quality. We never had any major problems with either of the 309s or the ZX. There were a few niggles with the ZX, which were annoying, as it was a new car, and I put this down to questionable build standards. The Xantia has been virtually faultless and the build quality of this car is excellent.
The C5 has recently blotted its copy book with a siezed window in the front passenger door. This was not a cheap item to put right!
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From original post - "I love the design of some French cars but am reluctant to part with hard earned as I hear so many bad stories about quality. Mate has a Scenic, 46,000mls... engine knackered with shot pistons"
Yes, and I have owned Citroen diesels since 1986 and apart from the odd glowplug, belt changes as required and oil/filters etc, I cannot recall anything else that any engine has required in over half a million miles. How did your mate knacker the pistons in 46k? Would he have knackered any car's pistons in 46k?
And to quote Machika "I have said the same thing in other threads in this forum, so sorry to bore you folks again," so I will quote a poster from another forum (again)- so here goes:-
"I drive a BX diesel which I use as a taxi. It's my 5th. BX 19 diesel & all gave me the greatest satisfaction in both reliability & economy. I still have my 1987 BX which I cannibalise for spares, not that I need many. It was retired for 'scrap' after a crash @ 350,000 miles. It's replacement was sold off for less than the value of its parts @ 450,000 miles; one has been retired to my driveway @ 740,000miles & my current workhorse is now @ 380,000 miles. I've never changed a wheel-bearing, only one gearbox and a few suspension bits; one major engine overhaul; two head-jobs but never a tow-home failure [unless you count the one time I let the cam-belt snap!]. Why is it Ford drivers keep telling me 'You've just been lucky mate' which is usually followed by 'anyway, no car can do that sort of mileage, who are you trying to kid'!
--
Phil
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Simply not possible to give a simple YES / NO answer, some are & some are not - depends upon many factors
One thing is for certain though, there better than British cars seen as all our industry went bankcrupt !!!
When it comes to engineering I'm a bit of a fan of the French, they still have the foresight to see that actually manufacturing something is of great benefit. If it wasn't for the French we wouldn't have a british aviation industry left either, AIRBUS pretty much saved British Aerospace from bankcruptcy too
Sorry for the rant, it's over now - just don't particularly like the tone of the initial question
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To be fair the same bloke has a 175,000 mile Espace too.
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nice to drive,expensive to own.
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"nice to drive,expensive to own."
You wouldn't like to back that up with just one little teeny weeny bit of evidence would you?
--
Phil
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It appears that people have different ideas on what makes a car a good buy or not. Just because a bit of trim falls off does not IMHO make it a bad car. Moons ago we had an Allegro Estate which never let us down in over 60k miles. Maybe we got the one reliable one ever made! But no one would have suggested we buy one; don't ask why we did. I think JD Power and other surveys give the facts-just look where French cars appear in these surveys.
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Just browsing through this threadit seems that Renault seemed to have attracted most of the flack here. It seems that Citroen and Peugeot are attracting far fewer compliants.
A friend of ours had a 51 plate laguna that he was tempted by because it was cheap. He has an allowance via his company to spend on a car up to 3 years old. Apparently this was just young enough to qualify.
After running it a short while and suffering every problem in the book, he realised that Lagunas were cheap for a reason.
Result, he got shot and bought a 05 reg Mondeo estate.
In answer to the original question, Renault are a heap of poo, TVM was a lucky owner IMO, Citroen and Peugeot are two brands that I would seriously consider.
...oh wait a minuite, both my sister and SWMBOs Brother have Scenics.....
H
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There are certain Renaults that appear to give more problems. The Laguna MK1 for example was regarded as a fairly tough work horse. The MK2 that followed left the factory before it was fully cooked IMHO. But by 2003 most of the problems were sorted. Also the 2.2dCi engine seems to have more issues than the 1.9 and early pre 2000 automatic gearboxes seem not to be particularly durable.
From the Auto Express 2006 reliability chart, the bottom ten cars contain three Renaults. But two of these Renaults are now obsolete models. If you look at the New Scenic in position 79 (not a grat result admittedly), it is ahead of two Mercedes and one Saab. It will be intersting to see what next year's chart throws up, once the New Clio and New Laguna show their faces.
Regarding Peugeot, if this survey is anything to go by, then it seems like the 307 is one to avoid.
I still believe that these surveys don't distinguish between a car that may be unreliable and one that is troublesome. Any thoughts?
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In relation to the 2005 JD Power survey for manufacturers, the difference between the industry average and the bottom was not a massive amount, a little over five per cent, that is all.
Ford were only just above the industry average and just 2.1% above Renault, who were actually above Citroen (only just) and Peugeot (by 2.2%). As these surveys are always touted as the true yardstick of the industry's products, it seems to me that, whilst it cannot be ignored that French cars regularly occupy the bottom half of the tables from these surveys, a little more examination of the results is often required.
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Whilst I have the figures for the above survey in front of me, the Laguna scored 77.2% to the Mondeo's 79.7%, not a massive difference, despite the 31 places difference in the table for individual models.
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Car sureveys are a waste of space
I saw one respondant slate VW for the touran.
The complaint? It was noisy with the windows open and VW wouldnt exchange the car.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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And they overlooked the fact it was brick like in appearance, handled like....well...a brick, and was mostly driven by people who may as well have been a brick?
Ok - that last bit was pretty tenuous but it finished the insult off nicely I thought.
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Its even red - like a brick.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Car sureveys are a waste of space
They are given a lot of credibility in this forum by many people, so it pays to examine them a bit more closely.
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To be fair though, every single car survey I've read to do with a car I've driven, I've always disagreed with.
Sometimes it's best to make your own mind up.
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So: you don't like French jalopes. You think Renault cars are carp.
Well, forgive me if I sound a little elderly and sharp
But I think it's just a matter of how long you've been alive
(And I'm a child beside a regal Renault 45).
So never mind de Dion or Jenatzy or the rest:
It's a former Axis product that you're going to say is best.
You'll disparage all Frog motors in your sour Rosbif way
And remain sublimely ignorant
- Gorblimey! Really ignorant -
Of Bugatti and Hispano
(Of course they must be guano)
And sluggish Talbot-Lago
And Delage and Delahaye...
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Alright - who gave Lud the bottle of Scotch?
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Lud never makes any sense Ad. I think he drinks more than I do.
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Tres bien! (Can't manage the accents).
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just out of interest, how are the french manufacturers doing financially these days?
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Better than Rover, GM, Ford and Chrysler?
Just a guess - but then someone will say that the French gov is subsidising them to the tune of xxxx million Euros per year (which is probably true!!)
--
Phil
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Just come back from the office, one of my sidelight bulbs has gone. Pesky french electrics, I'm getting a Honda next.
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They are awefull, aren't they, I've had to change two numberplate bulbs in three years on the Xantia. The quality is obviously going downhill, I only changed one in eight years on the BX!
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Same old.
Same old topic, same old bias
If anyone?s got a few minutes to spare maybe they would like to add the following topics to the discussion board
German cars..good or not?
Italian cars..good or not?
American cars..good or not?
The point being everyone will have an opinion based on their experiences and what 'billlyhaveaguess' tells you down the pub.
The fact is the original poster is interesting in buying a French car, well like all cars don?t you need to check it out? Surely this is the most important item irrespective of country of origin of manufacturer, although the car may not be built in that country! If it?s good go for it, yes even if it?s French, it its bad keep looking.
I was looking at the technical board today, there seemed to be PLENTY (more than French) of German car problems there.
Having only owned one French car, my current (xantia) they seem good to me, and at absolute giveaway prices for one in good condition.
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