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Hello their, I am thinking of buying an 18 month old Audi A6 3.0 TDI or BMW 530i TDI or E class TDI, in each case the 3 litre version or near equivalent. I would be grateful of some opinions on the respective merits of each marque. I am thinking of keeping the purchase for at least 5-10 years, so durability and reliability is important. 10-15 years ago such a decision in my opinion would have been striaghtforward as Merc were the best, but today al premium band German cars cost the earth for so so reliability and quality...but i any event what do fellow back room guys think?
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I would rule out the Merc myself, they are expensive over-rated and not particularly well made. The BMW will probably hold its value the best, whilst the Audi would have the best build-quality. It is a very hard choice between these two I'm afraid, I would go for the Audi as I am very happy with my A4 now, but I would say the 530D is still a very attractive proposition, and it may just come down to the sort of deal you can get on either car really.
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I will never own another Audi.
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I have owned my A6 quattro for six years since new. The car itself has been a model of mechanical reliability and passed an MOT test on Saturday without qualification. The dealers can be a bit suspect though. My problems with phantom repairs are well documented here. Less so is the fact that two different Audi franchises damaged the interior trim (severely scoring the polished walnut around the gear lever with a sharp metallic attachment to a vacuum cleaner) whist it was in their care. Both times rectified after calls to Audi.
I am hoping to keep it until its tenth anniversary.
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BMW every time; best diesel engines, good build quality, better dealers (though not hard to better Mercedes dealers).
The styling of the 5 series has grown on me, and in the right colour (dark) with the right alloys I think they look fantastic. A friend has just got a 525D sport; it's lovely. He even rates the much maligned I-drive thing. I've never owned an Audi, but have had a Passat and thought VAG dealers were OK. I have had a Mercedes, and probably never would again. Currently I've got a 3 series diesel and it's very impressive. It came with 5 years free servicing; don't know if that deal still applies....
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Hello their, I am thinking of buying an 18 month old Audi A6 3.0 TDI or BMW 530i TDI or E class TDI, in each case the 3 litre version or near equivalent. I would be grateful of some opinions on the respective merits of each marque. I am thinking of keeping the purchase for at least 5-10 years, so durability and reliability is important. 10-15 years ago such a decision in my opinion would have been striaghtforward as Merc were the best, but today al premium band German cars cost the earth for so so reliability and quality...but i any event what do fellow back room guys think?
Personally I'd buy a Chrysler 300C CRD brand new for the same price as a second hand German box.
You'd be getting a car that had a 3 year warranty, was bigger than any of them (inside & out), out perform any of them, has looks and prescence that t'other cars can't even dream of, and you'd be able to spend your days talking to admiring people who want to know all about your car.
If you think I'm talking pants, find a dealer with a 300C CRD Demo (not easy as demand is far outstripping supply) and try one for yourself. It really is a fantasic package that is being sold for a ridiculously low price.
MTC
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What's the depreciation like on these Chrylsers?
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What's the depreciation like on these Chrylsers?
Very early to say.
Demand far outstrips supply.
Discounts aren't happening (or barely)
Some dealers have sold all of their 2006 allocation.
The waiting list for a CRD is 4-5 months.
so hopefully, unless Chrysler screw the pooch with over supply or heavy discounting (which seems unlikely), it should be OK.
Time will tell I suppose.
MTC
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Different people have different priorities, which means they will chose different cars.
We had a Merc C270 estate which we needed to replace with something bigger for our growing family. The A6, 5 and E estates were all high on the list.
The A6 was ruled out because it has such a high window-line and low seats the kids couldn't see out the side and would doubtless throw up all over that lovely leather, and wasn't that roomy in the boot. The 5-series was also bit small, has run-flat tyres (which seems a daft idea), I-drive (which on balance seems to be a problem) and 'challenging' looks. Which left the E class. My priorites were space, comfort and refinement, which it delivers by the bucket-full. Found a pre-reg E320CDI at £10,000 off list, which now graces our drive.
I don't think there is much between them on reliability, but dealerships of all three are patchy, as has been well documented elsewhere.
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Thats a good price how did u manage that? Where is the best place to look for a merc? what sort of mpg do you get? Has it been reliable? Is it an old or new shape?
Thanks for any replies.
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Thats a good price how did u manage that? Where is the best place to look for a merc? what sort of mpg do you get? Has it been reliable? Is it an old or new shape? Thanks for any replies.
It was registered Dec 05, and I bought it end of January with 300 miles on the clock, bought from Mercedes Benz Milton Keynes. Had my trim and colour choice (Black, Avantgarde) together with all my required options (Comand, leather, 7-seats, Parktronic). It's a 320CDI. Around town I get just under 30mpg. On a run I get just under 40mpg.
Very pleased so far (3,700 miles and counting).
Look at the dealers - I think they still have some end of last year pre-reg deals around. I found them more willing to do a deal than Mercedes Direct.
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Found a pre-reg E320CDI at £10,000 off list, which now graces our drive.
I guess it is the straight 6 3.2 rather than the new V6 3.0 hence the price, nevertheless a great price for a great car.
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was bigger than any of them (inside & out), out perform any of them, has looks and prescence that t'other cars can't even dream of, and you'd be able to spend your days talking to admiring people who want to know all about your car.
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Big isn't everything in a car, otherwise we would all be driving relatively cheap American imports.
Furthermore, I sincerely doubt that the Chrysler would outperform a 530d or an A6 3.0V6 diesel.
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It doesn?t help your choice much, but the good news is that they are all cracking cars which excel in different respects but do nothing poorly and anyone who tells you otherwise is unlikely to have driven these cars. The engines are all uniformly smooth and strong and unless you?re dramatically downsizing you?re unlikely to be disappointed with performance or refinement though the final choice really should be after test drives.
I was specifically testing the 2.7. 270cdi and the 525d but have also driven the larger engined models.
The Mercedes has a more comfortable ride than the other two, a really serene cruiser, but to me it didn?t engage or handle nearly as well off the motorway and a-road. I cannot comment on reliability or quality issues but I had the car for a long test, no problems arose and I can see the appeal of this car. I have to say though that I wasn?t impressed with the attitude of the two local dealers.
The Audi was much sharper to drive but firmer ride and more fidgety around town. The general opinion was that the Audi was easily the more attractive of the trio and the cabin was easily the most comfortable and best built of the three. I can confirm the comfort as mine has just has it?s 57,000 service and apart from an airbag software recall the car hasn?t missed a beat or failed to impress. My wife has had Audis for years and the dealer service has been fairly patchy but we?ve both noticed a distinct improvement in the last couple of years and TBH I haven't had any issues with them.
The BMW was easliy the most enjoyable and involving drive of the three, though a bit firm on those RF tyres, and it was only the styling, inside and out and the interior build quality that swung it for the Audi. I think that it would be useful to have a look through previous posts at forums.e60.net/ and www.bmwland.co.uk/talker/index.php as there appear to be a few niggling problems with the i-drive software, door seals and creaks and you could see what to look out for. My local BMW dealer couldn?t have been more helpful. That said, my car has to go back later this year and just for a change and despite the styling, I?m tempted to go for the 530d as it really is a great car and hugely entertaining to drive.
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My opinion is biased by my location. We have snow in the winter. I have driven rwd cars in snow vs fwd cars and there is no comparison.. traction control or no traction control.
As a result of my experiences, I will never buy a RWD car whilst I live where I do (Stafforshire Moorlands).
Unless of course you enjoy involuntary 180 degree spins..
madf
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My opinion is biased by my location. We have snow in the winter. I have driven rwd cars in snow vs fwd cars and there is no comparison.. traction control or no traction control. As a result of my experiences, I will never buy a RWD car whilst I live where I do (Stafforshire Moorlands). Unless of course you enjoy involuntary 180 degree spins.. madf
Have you tried winter tyres?
I took my E class to Switzerland last month, so equipped, in convoy with a Subaru Forester, and drove on quite a lot of snow-covered roads. Only once did the ESP come on - when reversing uphill over a weeks worth of fresh snow.
When the Subaru was asked to do the same manoeuvre - it span its wheels. We both got out after this amusing 20 second delay that proved that tyres not driven wheels are the real issue in snow.
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Have you tried winter tyres?
Madf is right, no matter which way you look at it a FWD car will always be better in the snow, with the same tyres as a RWD car, and probably without them too.
I had a BMW 325 which was astonishingly undriveable when we had a bit of snow.
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My 2p worth:
The Audi looks the nicest, especially in a dark colour and is the understated one of the trio. You may even get let of side turnings in one!
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Depends on:
- which you like best to drive - if you're going to keep it for some time you'll need to like it, so I'd suggest you try for test drives in each of them
- what your driving style is - BMWs are great but to get the best out of them you have to concentrate hard and (purely a personal view) I don't think they suit my get-a-move-on-but-relaxed style of driving
- where you live - the point about RWD in snow and ice is well made
- how much room you need - the E-class has the most useable space, followed by the Audi and the BMW
- (if you like them all equally) where your intended purchase has been. Someone may have sold an 18-month-old car because they hated it or it was unreliable: but if they PXed it for the szme make again the chances are that it was a good one.
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If I was going to keep it for 3 years or so then the BMW would be hard to beat though 10 year old BMWs have a rather unfortunate image, Mercedes reputation has taken knock recently as has Audis though the latter more in respect of niggles rather than integrity of design and manufacture, I would probably have Audi at the top of the list though would also consider S-Type.
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My concern with Audi is the reliability of the Multronic gearbox, according to Aprilla its a box that requires more r&d to get right...its a tough choice in the end and I supoose it bils down to taste? Thanks for all the replies.
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Gearbox on the 3.0TDI is a conventional Tiptronic automatic gearbox. The Multitronic is fitted to the 2.0TDI and 2.7TDI FWD varients. The Multitronic does not mate to Quattro. Both are good gearboxes but you must change Multitronic oil at 40k otherwise expensive repairs loom and Audi won't support any claim if the oil wasn't changed on schedule.
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My concern with Audi is the reliability of the Multronic gearbox, according to Aprilla its a box that requires more r&d to get right...
I think I would be concerned long term with the quattro drive train as well - some 4wd systems can get damaged if all 4 tyres are not evenly worn, so if you get a puncture, you have to change 4 tyres, not just one. Unsurprisingly the manufacturers keep quiet about this.
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I've only had 2 punctures in 24 years of driving so I'm no expert but don't you just stick on the spare wheel, get the puncture fixed and stick the original one back on? I'm not sure how this process would produce any significant wear differences? Have you any detail on this and what vehicles are affected?
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Assuming the pucture could be repaired or the tyre wasn't otherwise dmaged (bulges, tread seperation etc).
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thats the old volvo system. Not aware of probs with anything else though. Certainly I have run mixed tyres on an audi Q without probs. (thats the old torsen diff not the newer haldex system)
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The Merc would seem the best model. There are lots of them used as taxis abroad and they run up starship mileages with foot to the floor stop start driving day in day out. These taxi firms know what they are about: Ok you get your wallet slimmed at the dealers but if like me you have a ''w'' or earlier reg they charge you half price labour which puts it on a par or better than other makes. I know Audis and BMWs can give cring making bills. A friend of mine just paid £600 for 4 tyres which he is advised to change every 10,000 miles.
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The merc is neither dynamically or visually impressive,they say that build quality is worse than it was,frankly,its never been better than volvo ,and about as attractive.
These vehicles are not designed for people interested in driving.
The Audi is satisfyingly well built,but any manufacturer that persists with a stupid engine configuration or position must be suspect in other areas,in this case their deisel engines are also off the money.
This is a shame as the styling and build quality is first class.
Bmw have the best dynamics and engines by a very long chalk,you may not like the image or styling,although you get used to them,and the build quality is not one wit better than it should be.Prices secondhand are midway between the other two,there are more of them about,and I can guarantee you will prefer driving one!
You have to remember that BMW have been making the same car,in various sizes,for 40 years now.Since the basic design was,probably coincidentally bearing in mind the famed germanic blank spot when it comes to chassis,actually fairly sanitary you now have a very evolved motor car indeed.
if only they would scrap those stupid in-line engines..........
robin
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"The Audi is satisfyingly well built, but any manufacturer that persists with a stupid engine configuration or position must be suspect in other areas; in this case their diesel engines are also off the money."
Eh?
Do tell us what you mean, or is this just the seeds of controversy?
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I drove a BMW 530d Sport Auto on runflats and 18's the other month. I was expecting a bone jarring ride following all the comments but actually it was rather pleasant.
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Well I just thought the ride on runflats is a bit firm, not bone jarring. If you compare the ride on an E60 without runflats you'll quickly realize how pleasant the ride can really be.
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"any manufacturer that persists with a stupid engine configuration or position must be suspect in other areas"
This sounds like baloney but giving you the benefit of the doubt, can you tell us what you're talking about?
The BMW 530d and 535d and the Audi 2.7, 3.0 and 4.2tdi are amongst the very best diesel engines on the market so can you explain how the former are "stupid" and the latter are "off the money"
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A bit off the power and not always as smooth as the BMW units,the four cylinder jobs are worse.
The engines stick out the front,this is as stupid as sticking them out the back.
They would be smoother if they were narrow angle v6s.
Also,they seem to produce rather poor consumption figures.
If they were flat sixes and mounted behind the front axle line most of their handling troubles would disappear with no further engineering effort.
The mercifully defunct straight fives were the worst offenders.
Car design is quite hard enough without deliberately designing them wrong in the first place!
Whatever his other blind spots may have been Issigonis did at least know where to put the wheels!And it was'nt a yard away from the bumpers.
Finally,i've never heard anyone else refer to them so glowingly.
Robin
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