Roberson:
I Agree, with you Surley BMW would have designed their autoboxes. so that Neutral can be selected whilst the car is still in motion for this reason..however as ive never had to shift a autobox into neutral then i cant really comment on this.
I also agree that he must have been thinking clearly enough to enable hi, to use a mobile therefore come up with a soloution to his dilemma.
A Car with PAS will always steer (albeit no PAS) when the engine is not running
A Car will always brake (abeit no assistance from the servo) whilst the engine is runnig, but as he had burnt out the brakes then again I cant comment in this situ
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1983 (A) Vauxhall Astra 1.3L
1993 (K) Vauxhall Cavalier 2.0i GLS
1999 (T) Renault Laguna 1.6
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"ive never had to shift a autobox into neutral "....whilst the car is in motion
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1983 (A) Vauxhall Astra 1.3L
1993 (K) Vauxhall Cavalier 2.0i GLS
1999 (T) Renault Laguna 1.6
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In his defense, if he was panicking that much, then his brain was probably so scrambled he wasn't thinking clearly enough to do it (although he did ring the AA etc?!?!?)
Doing 135 in and out of traffic and "When I came to the roundabout I was doing 115 mph" and being cut out of an inverted BMW he is a lucky fellow to survive.
I am amazed that during the whole time, it would appear that no one advised him to turn the engine off.
With speeds from 70 with brakes to 135!!! with no brakes two phone calls in approx 30 mins leaves a lot of thinking / discussion time.
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It seems to have been a very quick 318 automatic!
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This was on the news tonight. Apparently he was doing 140mph there.
Any takers on what the top speed will be by the end of the week? ;)
As to what actually went on, and what he could and couldn't do. To be fair to the guy, lets wait to see what BMW have to say.
The guy in the Vel Satis in France IIRC was the one who received the threat of legal action. Apparently Renault could find no fault that could have lead to a similar thing happening.
H
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I do wonder if the guy had some sort of attention seeking disorder. I find it hard to believe that he could drive for 60 miles at well over a hundred mph, without having an accident on the motorway if he could not control his speed. I think the guy is an idiot and I hope he sticks to what he said he'd do "I will never drive again" because we don't need people like him on the road.
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First of all let me say that I don't believe this story. It just doesn't add up. None of us can truly say what we would do when we were faced with a situation that we felt that the car was driving itself.
However, re the comment that why was he not told to switch ignition off, would you like to be that PC or AA man, answering a phone, not knowing the full situation, maybe not being aware of whether brakes, PAS etc would still work, and end up getting sued in this society we live in just now?
If his car was so bad that the accelerator jammed, then it could be so bad that if he had turned off his ignition maybe hist steering lock could have jammed on and put him into a crash barrier at 100 mph?
Lots of ifs and maybes with this story, but I still don't believe it. However if I was attention seeking, I wouldn't crash my car at 100 mph....
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I agree.
Steering locks only lock when you REMOVE the key.
All owners manuals say that brake and steering still work when engine is off but require more effort.
I believe that if a driver doesn't know these things and it leads to an event as we have seen here, he should get charged with failing to be in control at the very least. Driving a car is a huge responsibilty and if you don't know the ins and outs, you should read the manual as you would for a chainsaw, gun or any other potentially injurous item.
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I agree. Steering locks only lock when you REMOVE the key.
At last!! Someone has twigged that the steering lock is only actuated upon Removal of the key. I'm amazed that no one else commented on this fact earlier in the this thread.
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From the DT online
"It might have taken off like a bullet, but Kevin Nicolle's BMW should have been a lot easier to stop than a run-away train.
Our advice would be to pull the gear lever into neutral or turn the ignition off," said a BMW spokesman.
"If you just turn the ignition back one click and leave the key in, the steering will not lock. Clearly this driver has had a terrifying experience, though, and while it is easy to discuss this calmly and rationally on the telephone, it would be quite another thing when you are at the wheel of a runaway car."
BMW has no idea why the throttle on Mr Nicolle's 1998 BMW 318 automatic jammed.
"At this stage, we haven't seen the car," said a spokesman. "We will be examining the car in the next few days." However, BMW has spoken to Mr Nicolle and he is full of praise for his car.
"He feels that in a lot of other cars he wouldn't have got away so lightly after such a crash," said the spokesman.
Steve Johnson, of the driving safety experts Drive & Survive, said modern electronics and fuel injection systems meant that the problem of runaway cars was not as common as it used to be. "It used to be quite a problem," he said.
But Mr Johnson said modern drivers should be prepared for such eventualities, although on motorways a sticking throttle might be difficult to detect initially as the car would be maintaining a high speed which could disguise the problem.
"You need to say, 'to hell with the mechanicals and the engine damage' and use your mirrors and vision to get the car safely on to the hard shoulder using the brakes," said Mr Johnson.
"Keep the engine running while you do this, as it will power the steering system and the vacuum brake servo.
"But once you are on the hard shoulder just pull the gear lever into neutral and switch off. As long as the key is left in the ignition, the steering will not lock."
Perhaps the biggest mystery of this case is how the old BMW managed to achieve the 130mph that Mr Nicolle claimed of it.
When a new 318i model with manual transmission was tested by Autocar magazine in July 1998, it achieved only 125mph.
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We all know that common sense and initiative have all but disappeared in the UK, and our friend was just waiting to be told what to do first......
- and no-one on the phone would advise him in case he sued;
- all the telephone calls are recorded for training and quality control purposes and this situation wasn't in the training manual (not allowed to go 'off piste' on your own anymore, you know);
- staffing was so low there was no supervisor to refer the matter to;
- waiting a bit longer at 125+mph, it would soon be someone elses problem further south;
- the one police car that could catch the BMW was in use on an important speed trap that was catching a load of innocent 33mph punters 80 miles away;
- the new set of 'Highwaymen' (this new officialdom that look like they're traffic police in battenburg chelsea tractors; probably won't be long before they're equipped with speed technology and become Traffic enforcers through the back door, with lower qualifications to HM Constabulary and staffed by temps) only work 9-5 weekdays.
I also find this stretch of the A1 boring and in need of some livening up but I only have a standard 1100 Escort - good fortune 'cos this would do at least 155mph on the A1.....
Good thread, but still wouldn't have fancied being in this postion. Sure I'd have tried something rather than phoning a friend though.....
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I think Mr Nicolle's main problem was that he hadn't read his car manual properly. As a driver of an automatic BMW I have often found my car flying down the inside lane of the motorway at full pelt.
He should know by now that all Bimmers are pre-programmed to shoot down the hard shoulder at 130mph. It's what other drivers expect from us and what the cars were designed to do. Is there any other reason to own a 3 series?
My guess is that he was driving too slow and the car's autopilot got bored. I used to have a 318 and I would have been well chuffed if I had managed to crank it up to 130.
I have to say though that I think we all owe him a debt of thanks. All you have to do the next time you fancy going flat out down the A1 now without getting a ream of tickets, is call the AA and then put your foot down. Seems to work fine. Not sure I fancy using a roundabout as a brake pad though.
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If your engine cuts out while driving along, it is true the car comes to a rather rapid stop, but not as rapid as applying the brakes.
But the braking effect surely arises from the vacuum in the inlet manifold because the throttle is closed? This throttle was apparently wide open - how much braking effect would there be from an engine coasting with no ignition or fuel and open throttle?
Anybody care to go out and experiment - possibly starting at a somewhat lower speed than 130?
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Probably unnecessary, with power to the ECU off, the throttle butterflies should be closed. Whole host of good and practical reasons.
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It depends whether the pedal was stuck or the throttle itsself.
I don't see how the pedal could get stuck, BMWs are at the 'stronger spring' end of the spectrum, and their pedals are of the two pivot-point type, being hinged to the footwell, and pedal lever.
If the throttle pedal postion sensor failed, it has two channels, if there is a descrepency, the car goes into limp mode.
If the throttle somehow got electronically stuck, it would have closed if he had of switched the engine off. If it was mechanically stuck, he would have still coasted to a stop.
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>Cliff Pope: braking effect from engine with open throttle
It scarcely matters. Apparently he had 30 miles of the A1 to slow down before he hit the first roundabout. How far will a car go if put into neutral at 100mph? 500 yards - I doubt it.
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It seems to have been a very quick 318 automatic!
I guess with a car as powerfull as this he wouldn't have had time to think ! (tongue firmly in cheek) - what an idiot!!
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ALL the BMWs I have driven (5) have a rev limiter.
You cannot overrev them. Period. Unless it has been disconnected or damaged.
Sounds like 1st April came early...
madf
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No one has wondered how the BMW geezer managed to pass the driving test with an IQ of 30. None of the reporters who covered this preposterous story have questioned the guy's veracity. Why hasn't he been prosecuted?
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8< snip 8<
someone else who doesn't understand that no swearing means just that
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Redlightzone,
Your last two comments added nothing to this discussion, so they've gone.
Hugo - BR Moderator
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