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Sorry site rules don't allow me to name the dealer but to be honest, this wasn't about the dealer, this was about there still being people out there making possibly the second biggest purchase of their life and being taken in hook, line and sinker, both in respect of the trade in figure and the purchase price.
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How old was the car, out of curiosity?
Clearly if it were a 53 plate then the buyer actually had quite a good deal; similarly if it were a W plate then the seller got a good price for it. Somewhere around the 51 plate mark they were both had.
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The thing is there is someone somewhere who is pleased with his/her new car. The only deals that get done are ones where both sides feel they are geting something from it. If the buyer is unwilling/unable to look at the abundant information which should have got them a better deal it's not really the salesman's job to do it for them.
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spot on Nsar
--
\"a little man in a big world/\"
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The salesman was only doing his job to the best of his ability.
In any case used car sales vastly outnumber new car sales by about six to one and it's where the bulk of a main dealership's profit on car sales is made.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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{Naming/shaming removed. Even an attempt at masking part of the name with asterisks after the first letter is enough to work out who you're talking about - DD}
Only to people in the trade DD. But I suppose you can't assume none of them can read.
Anyone who consults this forum must be aware of what a vast range of prices there are for the same merchandise. I agree with one of the later posts: if the punter's happy, why wipe the grin off his face with wiseass comment? My present car cost £250 but I haven't always been so lucky. A friend whose motors are usually pretty well impeccable always pays top dollar for them.
Actually good salesmen are sadists and they like revelling in their imagined cruelty. But if they're really good, or working for a more or less respectable outfit, then the merchandise can't be total carp. Just no sense in it unless you're a fly-by-night.
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Only to people in the trade DD. But I suppose you can't assume none of them can read.
I'm not in the trade, but I knew who he was talking about immediately.
DD.
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Interestingly, I read BobbyG's post just after seeing that an item I had been watching on ebay (which I reckoned would go for about £60, and was worth £100 max) went for £180. I couldn't believe it.
So, yes, there's one born every minute.
That said . . . if I had the choice of paying £4k of my own money for a 2nd hand Rover 45, or £25k or £30k for (say) a new Audi TT, I'd go for the Rover any day, and reckon it money considerably better spent. There's many a man who thinks he's canny, but who is, in his own way, totally gullible.
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Whats the problem? It was a clean car, it had low mileage, FSH.
Ok so it went for over top dollar, but the buyer is happy and probably has a a good car that will do him very good service.
The salesman hasnt lied, hasnt pressurised, hasnt forced the buyer to take the car with vague promises
Result all round I say.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Ok so the car is bought in for £1800 and sold for £3900, out of the £2100 the dealer has it is cleaned, valeted inside, serviced and warrantied, perhaps also taxed, the dealer also gives a slice to the salesman. If we were talking about a car bought for 18k and sold for 20k it would not be an issue.
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There's an old saying ...it takes two to make a market. Never more true than when it comes to buying or selling a car.
I remember trying to sell a Fiat for £7.5 K when it was only worth £5K and I could have waited for ever for someone to give me what I wanted or you take a lower figure and bite their hand off
Paul
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This thread reminded me of a story that an old friend told me about his step-father who had an Astra in his s/h car showroom marked at £2800. A chap came in, had a good look at the car, said he liked it very much, but was actually looking to spend a little more money. He then left the showroom. Over the course of the weekend, mate's Dad re-labelled the car at £3500 and a few days later, the chap came in and bought it!!!
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As I said, these people are sadists who revel in their imagined cruelty.
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This thread reminded me of a story that an old friend told me about his step-father who had an Astra in his s/h car showroom marked at £2800. A chap came in, had a good look at the car, said he liked it very much, but was actually looking to spend a little more money. He then left the showroom. Over the course of the weekend, mate's Dad re-labelled the car at £3500 and a few days later, the chap came in and bought it!!!
Don't tell me the chap didn't realise what he had done.
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And VAT on the margin between buying & selling, with no allowance for guarantees, refurbishing etc etc.
Unlees the VAT rules have changed since I was in the trade!
Roger. (Costa del Sol, España)
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And VAT on the margin between buying & selling...
VAT on the margin? Isn't VAT added to the total price? Are the rules different for cars or second-hand goods?
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There certainly was,in my day, a "special scheme" for used cars (& certain other items). Basically if you buy a car for a grand and sell it for two grand VAT is due, from the dealer, on the margin - £175 to pay.
If you bought a dog for a grand and spent 500 quid on it to make it saleable the VAT was STILL the £175 on the gross margin.
That's why we used to manipulate the figures, post deal on the customer invoice (& with his OK), to reduce the (inflated to allow for silly P/X allowances) price of the newly purchased car by the same as the over-allowance on the P/X.This reduced the apparent margin & save VAT on a sum added to make the punter happy with the P/X on his heap.
Eventually, way down the line we often got a hundred quid banger as the end of deal, which we then sold to a local trader.
Roger. (Costa del Sol, España)
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Eventually, way down the line we often got a hundred quid banger as the end of deal, which we then sold to a local trader.
For more than a hundred quid I trust.
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I couldn't possibly comment!!
Roger. (Costa del Sol, España)
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Roger
I don't think you've understood the VAT margin scheme. I've changed your figures so that £2,000 is what the punter pays, as it makes it easier to understand.
Buy a car for £1,000. Sell it for £2,000 cash. You need to account for output VAT on the £1,000 profit, i.e. £149. (Being 17.5% of £851.) £851 is the actual profit you therefore make.
Buy a car for £1,000. Spend £500 on parts (which is a VAT inclusive amount). You - as you say - still need to account for output VAT on the £1,000 profit, i.e. £149. (Being 17.5% of £851.) But, you can also reclaim input VAT on the £500 of parts, and that amounts to £74.50. So the net amount you pay to the taxman is reduced to £74.50. Given the £500 you've already splashed out, your overall cash profit is reduced to £425.50 which is exactly half the profit you made last time.
In terms of the trade-off between px and purchase price, you don't actually save yourself any VAT, you only manage a small cashflow advantage.
Buy car for 1000, sell for 2000, give 500 px for old car. Taxman gets (as in above example) £149. Then sell the 500 px car for 1000 & no px. Taxman gets another £74. Total amount given to taxman £223.
Alternatively, buy car for 1000, sell for 1750, give 250 px for old car. Taxman gets 112. Then sell the 250 px car for 1000 and no px. Taxman gets another 112. Total amount given to taxamn £223.
So you see, it doesn't really make any difference to the VAT man, except a little difference in terms of cash flow, so he gets his £38 a month earlier.
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watched and heard a deal being done recently where a young guy bought a car at top dollar he traded his car against the new one for a very poor price. i personally would have given him 4 times what he got as a trade-in price and reckon i would have got a bargain. The deal was one i would have run from but hey he was over the moon and nobody forced him. it takes all sorts...cheers...keo.
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im struggling with this.....
Why can a car not have a fairly fixed value and you simply pay it?
Everytime I buy a car price starts high and then goes low with free fuel, mats etc. If I didnt feel comfortable doing this then guess what I get over charged.
There are many people out there who simply do not haggle and therefore are vulnerable to the practice above.
Why can buyng cars not be like Tescos?
My point is for usually the 2nd biggest purchases people make after their houses there should be easy systems in place to protect the buyer. When i say easy I don't mean phone around dealers, get parkers guide, take a friend, offer cash then change your mind.
Buying cars should be like buying heinz beanz......
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>>Why can buying cars not be like Tescos?
Buying televisions is not like Tescos, never mind a car. I always hassle, and virtually always get, a deal from a Curries or Comet. They don't lower the price because 99% of people pay the higher price and they prefer the increased revenue.
They lower the price with some because they don't wish to lose the sale.
Works for me.
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