I read in today's Sunday Times that a database, to be set up after the Dunblane shooting has still not been brought into use, 10 years after the event that caused its creation. All that is needed, apparently, is to have a central database of all people who have ever applied for and been granted or refused a firearms certificate. On the basis that this relatively simple project is 10 years late, what chance do BR members see for the
successful running of a database to charge every road user for their mileage, bearing in mind that it a Government scheme and will involve the use of computers?
|
Converting many forces paper records going back - what 50 years? into a database is not a trivial task.
Agreed, government sucess with computerisation of anything seems a bit lacking!.
However roadcharging will probably be farmed out with the runner of the system getting a big percentage rackeoff of the profits (as I understand the London CC works) then it has much greater chance of sucess.
|
|
It,s amazing isn't it,how through the drip,drip effect,that motorists seem to be getting brainwashed into accepting road charging as inevitable and acceptable.
|
|
|
I believe it is because such database and system would have to be run by third party companies and other third party companies (such as rail and public transport) would benefit from car restrictions our politicians come up with beserked ideas like that. Where there is money to be made there is always an idea how to do it for our own good.
We are already road charged - it's called road tax and because the way it is regulated for most people it's most expensive in Europe. We also pay the highest fuel prices in the world.
It never stops to amaze me how we can make cameras that can track movements and automatically reckognize plates from 20 metre poles, dial out and fine us on the spot, but we still have to wait ages for traffic light change on completely empty streets or to give priorities to roads closed for years. I find it difficult to comprehend how can authorities restrict speed on motorways out of cities to 30 or 50 miles per hour just so there is excuse to put some speed cameras around and then moan about how much traffic there is in rush hour.
Number of cars on the road doesn't grow indefinitely. It's a very finite figure. Even if we all buy 2 cars each we can only drive one at the time and demographics point to that number being lower and lower every decade.
--------------------
[Nissan dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
|
'We are already road charged - it's called road tax '
No it isn't,it's called vehicle excise licence and does not go towards roads.It would be simpler to charge for road usage through fuel,as is already done really,apart from lawnmowers,outboard motors etc.most pump fuel goes in road vehicles.Of course this would not give the capability for tracking vehicles and controlling speed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I bet if they introduced road charging using the satellite tracking then it would not be long before a smart 4th former would find a way of blocking it using odd bits and pieces from home.
|
|
I tried blocking mine the other day! I have a car with a metallised windscreen and the GPS signal will not go thru it. My aerial is on the rear parcel shelf and I put a 4 layer piece of aluminium foil over it thinking that it would kill the signal dead - it didn't affect it at all! As you say, someone will soon come up with a way of killing the signal and whatever the kit costs it will be cheaper than the road charges!
|
|
|
|
|
The difference is the firearms database won't generate 10 billion pounds of tax a year.
|
Sure as eggs are eggs, the government has long-term plans to abolish freedom of movement/personal transport.
We already have many backend spy systems being implemented, such as the National New Generation ANPR which goes live next month, and the RFID smart plates for which the roadside sensors are already being installed. Once the hardware is in place, the software can be installed to do pretty muc anything, and couple this with the newer cars which have drive by wire, steer by wire, and brake by wire adaptive cruise etc... it won't be long before they will just stop your car being able to drive into designated areas such as near parliament or towards a protest against this sort of thing.
|
I'd like to see them try and stop a pack of classics without all that fancy rubbish on them though....
They are voted for and can be voted out. It will only take one person to compromise the database and give out the whereabouts of some cabinet minister in a dark alley way or in other places they shouldn't have been before the idea will be dropped quietly on a friday afternoon.
There are more of us than there are of them anyway - if the public doesn't want it then there is no way they are going to be able to enforce it. We see already how the no using a mobile while driving isn't enforced so there is no reason to imagine they'd be any better at enforcing road user charging.
teabelly
|
There's too much money in it to ignore it. It will go through because the moronic majority will be told that it is for catching tax and insurance cheats, and that "law abiding citizens will have nothing to fear". The mob will probably also be set against a convenient minority, probably 4x4 owners, and will queue up to vote for their own shackles. Easy.
The best reason for doing it is actually that people will not voluntarily co-operate in reducing CO2 - 'Chelsea tractir' owners will be demonised to get it through, but to make any real impact there needs to be a major reduction in car use, as well as everybody moving to small, light cars and taking a different view about commuting. As the motorway network has developed we have become very blase and thousands of people drive 50 miles or more to work now - that can only be stopped by pushing the cost beyond that of the equivalent train fare and that won't just affect the evil 4x4 owners - in fact the low mileage 4x4 owner might not suffer as much as the 120 mile per day Mondeo TDCi (or has the Almera taken over?)driver.
Of course it won't really make that much difference if the rest of the world doesn't follow suit - and the US has yet to acknowledge that CO2 causes any problem!
|
|
|
I'd like to see them try and stop a pack of classics without all that fancy rubbish on them though....
Simple, they would just be barred from the road.
One of the (many) problems I have with road charging is that 'they' are talking of variable charges on various roads at various times and directions. Just how the hell are you supposed to know what you should be charged with all those variables, so that you can keep tabs on whether or not the wonderful computer has cocked up again.
|
|
As for variable charges for various times of the day.Most of us don't want to be on the motorway at 6.30am,but if I am to get to work on time,thats when it has to be.I would love to pootle down the motorway at 11am,but I think I would get the sack for being late.
|
> Most of us don't want to be on the motorway at 6.30am,
> but if I am to get to work on time,thats when it has to be.
On one hand 'they' don't want us on the roads, on the other hand trains don't want us too ( news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4112360.stm ). What is it with all the people trying to get to work on time eh, can't they just stay at home and claim unemployment benefits like the rest of the coutry?
--------------------
[Nissan dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
|
|
|
|
|
|
relatively simple project is 10 years late, what chance ... successful running of a database to charge every road user for their mileage
>>
difference is that dunblame project is for protection of future possible murders, whereas road charging is for immediate real revenue geneartion. you can bet they will speed up projects that get money out of on your wallet, and/or force you out of your evil climate-changing filthy polluting vehicles.
|
|
I thought that little round bit of paper on my windscreen was my 'road charging' already paid for...
|
"I thought that little round bit of paper on my windscreen was my 'road charging' already paid for..."
Yes indeed, Miss1tw. But you don't expect the powers that be to abolish road tax once road charging is introduced, do you?
Nooo, there'll surely be some excuse as to why every car owner in the UK has to pay road fund to register the fact that they keep a vehicle (or some such baloney), on top of which you'll pay again to actually drive that vehicle.
Or, more likely, a further study of road charging will reveal it to be impractical so, lo and behold, they'll switch to tolls, congestion charges or increased tax on fuels instead.
Am I being cynical? Our lords and masters here in Ireland are eagerly erecting toll plazas on almost every new stretch of primary route or motorway they build. We hear no mention of the abolition of road tax, though. Instead, we're told the tolls are essential to pay for the construction of the new roads.
Funny, I thought that's what road tax did...
|
|
Nothing 'Miss's about me last time I looked :^D It's just my username here at work. I couldn't think of an original one so for simplicity I just went with that.
|
I guess road charging is also planning ahead for the time when we no longer use fossil fuels to run cars and move to electric/hybrid/fuel cell cars, then the government will lose its massive tax takings at the pumps.
Something like 80% duty on fuel will be replaced by exponentially higher road pricing. And they can change these prices on a whim rather than rely on the fuel companies.
|
That 'road tax' is vehicle excise duty and just allows you to put your vehicle on the road. Actual usage is charged through fuel.
Nice simple system - difficult to avoid paying the usage tax - I really can't see a reason for changing it.
Unless the goverment want to know where I am and where I'm going - I'd quite like to know that myself though.
|
Anything is feasible, 'do nothing' is an option at least for now in my opinion. There will be losers regardless of what happens.
But as one of the earlier messages pointed out, the government wants you to believe that a national road pricing scheme is inevitable.
That is rich coming from an executive (not helped by our toothless legislature) who simply won't do enough joined up thinking. Have they ever stopped their focus group love-ins to consider why so many 8 mile trips to work in the local town have become 50 mile, 2-hour commutes? Or why school runs are the majority kids transport? And so on....
Until those unelected special adviser wonks in their respective policy bunkers of housing, employment, globalisation, environment and local government actually start talking to each other, and preferably even connecting with us via Parliament along the way, any honest, objective debate by sensible people like us will fail.
It's got to start from the top, but you'll have to wait ages for that to happen as he's far too busy with Iraqis, Iranians, Imams and now dodgy Italians at the moment.
|
|
|
|
