Hi
I was just wonder why has no-one made a diesel motorbike. I've done a forum serch but that didn't really awnser my question, It just said someone has made one but nothing seems to have come of it. Does enyone know why?
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I seem to remember an article in a motorcycle mag back in the 80's where a chap fitted a diesel engine in a motorcycle frame. Performance was poor but mileage was good
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Yes the have been made in USA
www.m1030.com/
Also for military use;
www.drive.cranfield.ac.uk/cfml/dieselmotorbike2.cfm
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I believe the Army use diesel motorbikes as they only want to use one type of fuel on the battlefield, and indirect injection diesel engines will run on virtually any type of heavy oil.
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Is that why tanks run on petrol v12 jag units on some I saw in the factory in Leeds
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Asperation is to convert all to Diesel, they were originally engineered with petrol engines, these might have been waiting to go in for reconditioning.
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Is that why tanks run on petrol v12 jag units on some I saw in the factory in Leeds
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I think these were in the old Scorpion light tanks, which have now either been retired or are shortly to be retired.
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Also see here:
www.f1engineering.com/diesel%20bike%20specs.html
searching further bought me to this:
www.peace65.freeserve.co.uk/Pictures/diesel.htm
this:
thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/02/25/thunder-star...n
this:
www.dieselmotorcycles.com/
and many more (via altavista)
Hope this helps.
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Enfield have done one for years, the Robin, it's all of 6bhp if I remember correctly, which is probably why you won't see one.
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There is a company in Germany that restores and exports Enfields with a Greaves engine.
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I recall reading about the Enfield conversion mentioned above. The engine was from a lawn mower or something. Must have been a pretty hairy one!
IIRC, it did over 200 mpg, but life's too short, IMO.
To answer the original question, I guess that diesel engines are a little bit heavy and expensive to produce, and why would any motorcycle company spend gozillions of dollars developing a suitable power unit, only to have a world of bikers laugh at it.
I'm the world's greatest fan of Diesel engines in cars, but for motorbikes, what's wrong with petrol?
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That can't surely be the Greeves from Thundersley in Essex - used to make great off road competition bikes, but they had 2-stroke engines?
I recall the article years ago about a guy called Ernie somebody or other who converted an old single cylinder Matchless. I can't imagine he noticed much difference!
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That's the 'Made in India' type Enfield. I recall seeing one tested on Top Gear by Richard Hammond (I think), 0-60 time measured on a calendar. Recommended for Indian farmers who aren't bothered about speed and might have an occasional requirement to run on vegetable oil.
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Wasn´t there a feature in the Daily Telegraph a couple of months ago about this? Someone had put a Daihatsu car diesel engine in a bike frame, and had to kickstart it with both feet IIRC.
There was one chap who´d been building diesel bikes all his life, think he uses Italian units.
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And here is the article:
snipurl.com/mkqg
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Didn't the enfield have a generator engine - i.e. a diesel engine used normally for driving a constant speed non-moving device ?
I would guess that most of the bigger european manufacturers (BMW especially) have built some test machines, but have decided not to go into production. Of the Japanese, I would expect both Honda and Yamaha to have, at least, looked at the possibility.
So far though, the only demand for diesel powered bikes has come from NATO (as descrived above), due to their requirement that vehicles use a common fuel.
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It's a cement mixer engine in the Enfield I think.
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When i worked on a farm in Wales we had a Polaris diesel Quad bike.
It was a slogger and had oodles of low end torque.
The only thing i did not like about it,and probably is the same for other quads,was that it did not do corners.
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"It's a cement mixer engine in the Enfield I think"
It just feels like it...
IIRC, Top Gear featured a diesel bike some years ago, described by Clarkson as the worst of all possible worlds. Difficult to disagree, really. :-)
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Having lots of torque available is great for cars which weigh upwards of 1300kg, but a motorbike is 140 - 200kg!
There's also the riding characteristics, revvy engines feel good on a bike so for the mainstream market I don't see it as viable at the moment.
Of course most manufacturers only polish the outside and add another 5% power to call it next year's model, so imaginative development isn't really there.
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It would be at home in a cruiser I guess, I can't see the noise going down well though.
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So basically they don't make them in the masses because their is no performance and petrol will do for the time being. The only people who seem to be adament about them do a conversion in their shed for a one off. Is that right?
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The only people who seem to be adament about them do a conversion in their shed for a one off. Is that right?
No, there's a version being trialled by the military so they can have the same fuel for every vehicle.
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So far as I'm aware, the reason that the military traditionally use PETROL landrovers & heavy trucks is so that they only need have one type of fuel on the battlefield to deal with everything including aeroplanes.
Using only one form of fuel is particularly important if it has to be shipped across the English Channel! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pluto
Hitler, on the other hand, developed diesel everything, as he could grow bio-diesel to cope with his severe oil shortages.
What modern aeroplanes burn is anybody's guess! So I am happy to be told that diesel is the fuel of the future... if it be.
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Isn´t jet fuel called jet-A, is kerosene with additives, and similar to diesel? Or are my hydrocarbons in a twist?
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Isn´t jet fuel called jet-A, is kerosene with additives, and similar to diesel? Or are my hydrocarbons in a twist?
Civilain jet fuel is called Jet-A1, military equivalent is AVTUR (AVviation TURbine fuel)or F34, can be used as fuel i diesel engine vehicles.
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So does that mean planes can run on diesel, In theory?
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That Honda advert had diesel engines flying in the sky, so I assume the answer's yes :-)
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So does that mean planes can run on diesel, In theory?
Yes a gas tubine will run on diesel
I have a book dated 1938 called the oil engine manual it states that Junkers have a Diesel piston aviation engine in R&D. Not sure about this but i think they got one flying just before the war. I think the advantages at the time would have been no troublesome electrics/magniteo's
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What about the Robin engined Enfields.......150mpg !
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Germans also had diesel powered aircraft in WW2, a variant of the Junkers 88 if I recall righlty.
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The Junkers engine was a 2-stroke supercharged opposed-piston 6 cylinde diesel, with 2 pistons acting towards each other in each cylinder, the space between the two pistons forming the combustion chamber. There were 2 crankshafts, one at the top of the engine and one at the bottom. The pistons uncovered inlet and exhaust ports as they reached the bottom of the downstroke and the supercharger provided the excess air to scavenge the spent gases. This was a similar principle to the Napier Deltic marine and railway locomotive engine that had 3 crankshafts, and 18 double-ended cylinders arranged in 3 banks of 6!!! It's a bit like trying to describe a spiral staircase over the phone!!
see
airmuseum.webpark.sk/motor_jumo_205_e.html
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Sorry, it wasn't - it's not allowed but I didn't know till I'd posted.
{Sofa spud, I found a link that does work, so have edited it in. DD}
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"Napier Deltic"
That would make an interesting bike...
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>> So does that mean planes can run on diesel, In theory?
Yes, but not for long, usage in a aero gas turbine engine is limited in terms of engine hours normally fifty, before you need to change the engine.
Use of Diesel would be the last resort as (1) it limit the operational life and (2) limits the operational useage i.e cannot fly in icing conditions due to possibility of fuel waxingg
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"cannot fly in icing conditions due to possibility of fuel waxing"
And since it gets colder as you go up, that must be somewhat limiting!
On the diesel bike front, I imagine the low demand/popularity is as much to do with vibration as lack of performance. Enough to make a Harley feel smooth, I imagine... :-)
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On the aircraft and height front: The Junkers86 (P?) was a high altitude reconnaissance aircraft that could fly above 30,000 ft (upto about 50,000 ft) It was fitted with two Jumo 207 CI (diesel) engines with turbos and NOS.
Weren't some of the Zeppelins diesel powered (you wouldn't want too many sparks in that type of aircraft!) ?
Although these were CI engines, I'm not sure the fuel was 'diesel' fuel as we put in our cars - so maybe waxing wasn't a problem ?
On the diesel bike front, RiDE magazine had an article some months (years?) ago, with a mocked up Ducati TDi on the front. Diesel engines tend to weigh more than petrol which would be a serious penalty for a bike.
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I remember reading on the web about a bike powered by a gas turbine engine - top speed was something phenomenal AFAIR. In a hurry so don't have time to search for the site, but may be linked from one of the sites listed above.
--
andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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I remember reading on the web about a bike powered by a gas turbine engine - top speed was something phenomenal AFAIR. In a hurry so don't have time to search for the site, but may be linked from one of the sites listed above. -- andymc Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
Yep, it was covered in a bike mag last year also.
I believe that Jay Leno owns one, 'cos he likes to melt into the background away from all that showbiz fluff ;o)
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here's some details (including spec and pics) of the NATO spec diesel motorcycle
www.drive.cranfield.ac.uk/cfml/dieselmotorbike1.cfm
The range looks good !
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As I see it a diesel motorbike would be wonderful for me. They are bullet proof, and imagine the economy!
The problem I see is their noise...most cars have lots of sound proofing. I once opened my fathers 280,000 mile diesels bonnet, and the noise was deafening. But if they sorted this out it would be very good.
Especially if it was a japaneese diesel that is very simple.
Out of interest, I always wondered why motorbikes rev so high. They do very low MPG considering a car weighs so much more. I suppose it gives a better feeling, but they use the same amount of fuel as a car almost. I wonder if the injector motorbikes are better?
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Seems a brilliant bit of kit 0-60 in 10.4 seconds though....this would run on central heating oil.
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