Product-led revival is one thing, dealer back-up is another - refer to recent thread ´Will fiat survive in the UK´.
Glad to hear the new Punto is better than the new Croma!
|
|
|
Must say that it looks a good car - the question is, can they build it right?
Much like the Citroen C4 - I had a drive in one and really liked it, shame it is not built by the Japanese. I couldn't risk my own money on one.
|
Got it in one!
I think we should have a new acronym for use in the BR
IWRMOMOO = I wouldn't risk my own money on one
Whatever the dynamic and aesthetic qualities of French and Italian cars and despite protestations of legendary reliability from some owners - IWRMOMOO applies to all of them.
|
Whatever the dynamic and aesthetic qualities of French and Italian cars and despite protestations of legendary reliability from some owners - IWRMOMOO applies to all of them.
There more there are with your opinion, the cheaper they are for people like me.
Strange how the Megane is a top seller in Europe.
|
>> Whatever the dynamic and aesthetic qualities of French and Italian cars >> and despite protestations of legendary reliability from some owners - IWRMOMOO >> applies to all of them. >> There more there are with your opinion, the cheaper they are for people like me. Strange how the Megane is a top seller in Europe.
>>
No more strange than, say, the Sun being the top selling newspaper in UK.
|
>> Strange how the Megane is a top seller in Europe. >> No more strange than, say, the Sun being the top selling newspaper in UK.
Not a terribly good analogy, IMO. Also, A Megane is a little more expensive than the Sun.
|
|
|
> Strange how the Megane is a top seller in Europe.
It isn't. Where did you get that info from?
|
> Strange how the Megane is a top seller in Europe. It isn't. Where did you get that info from?
I think I saw it in the Independent, not too long ago.
|
>> > Strange how the Megane is a top seller in Europe. >> >> It isn't. Where did you get that info from? >> I think I saw it in the Independent, not too long ago.
It was the top seller in W Europe in 2003 and 2004.
www.renault.ie/press/news20050107.asp
According to a press release from Renault, although they had a fall in market share for car sales in W Europe in 2005, if light commercial vehicles are included, they were the top selling brand in W Europe for the eighth time.
wardsauto.com/ar/auto_renault_sees_western/index.h...m
|
It was the top seller in W Europe in 2003 and 2004. www.renault.ie/press/news20050107.asp According to a press release from Renault, although they had a fall in market share for car sales in W Europe in 2005, if light commercial vehicles are included, they were the top selling brand in W Europe for the eighth time. wardsauto.com/ar/auto_renault_sees_western/index.h...m
They focus on particular statistics that make them look good, PSA & Ford group sell more, VW group sell a lot more. Renault is heading downhill, the Japanese and Koreans will see to that.
|
They focus on particular statistics that make them look good, PSA & Ford group sell more, VW group sell a lot more. Renault is heading downhill, the Japanese and Koreans will see to that.
So what particular statistic makes them look good when it shouldn't? They have stated that their market share of cars has fallen. They have conceded that Modus sales are disappointing.
Having the top selling car in two years out of the last three and being the leading brand in W Europe, when light commercial vehicles are included, is a sign of failure?
|
|
It was the top seller in W Europe in 2003 and 2004.
I doubt it ever was. Renault loves to play strange statistics but one about Megane being best seller in Europe is simply not true.
If you check any car sales statistics, Jato ones being probably easiest to access on the net, for the past 4 years month after month the three top selling cars in Western Europe were almost without exceptions VW Golf, Opel Astra and Ford Focus. And the ratios are usually whooping too, with Golf outselling Clio and Megane by at least 40% annual figures.
Among French makers Peugeot sold more 206 and 306s last year than Renault did Meganes. So I don't know how Renault makes those statistics, whether they force dealerships to pre-reg more cars than any other maker, or simply make them up as they go, but even if you were to look at a car park anywhere in Europe, you will never ever find one where fugly fat bum of Megane dominates over common hatch of Golfs or Focii.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Agree with you in principle but..could you be a potential customer for the Fiat Sedici 4 x 4 then? To be built by Suzuki and sold by them as the SX4. However, I personally would then need to confirm whether that is Suzuki Japan or Suzuki Bulgaria or Poland or even India etc.
|
|
|
|
>>Come on Fiat, Skoda did it.>>
Nothing wrong with Czech engineering over many years, including that for a number of famous Skoda models.
It was VW who brought Skoda into the modern era with a brand new faactory and models lineup and, what's more, extremely successfully...:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
As someone who may be looking to replace a (very reliable) four yera old Rover 25 (rember those?) it might be of interest. The only downside is the question mark over Fiat's viability. Still I like the looks and it's the size of car that Fiat traditionally make well.
|
|
|
|
As someone who may be looking to replace a (very reliable) four year old Rover 25 (remember those?) it might be of interest. The only downside is the question mark over Fiat's viability. Still I like the looks and it's the size of car that Fiat traditionally make well.
|
"four year old Rover 25 (remember those?)"
Amazingly, there's a garage here (Isle of Wight) with new ones still on the forecourt. Mind you, the price (£8.5k) probably explains it.
WRT rusty Italian metal, a lovely Alfa GTV6 appeared (and drove out again) in the school car park this morning. It looked original and sounded wonderful. Just shows one shouldn't generalise.
|
|
|
|
|
Good luck to 'em. When I started work my manager had a Fiat, can't remember which one, but it had a twin cam engine and 5 speed box in the days when these were unheard of technical luxuries.
It was a 125. Used one in Dar es Salaam with non-functioning vacuum servo (=no brakes). That was good for one's driving I can tell you.
Come on Fiat, Skoda did it.JH
Meaning what exactly? What did Skoda do that Fiat ought to do? Eh? Eh? Don't diss Skoda if you know what's good for you. And I don't mean VW either. Just watch it.
|
I'm not one of the Anti Fiat Brigade, but think it looks smart, anyway.
Interesting to see how 'different' it is to the new Corse, style/bodywise, 'cos they're to share so many other components, with each other.
VB
|
I have been up since 4am so bear than in mind when I say that those headlights look like they're off a Maserati.
Don't they?
|
|
|
|
Stuart, you are joking? A neighbour had a Skoda Estelle. It rusted clean through in less than 12 months. Even British cars didn't rust that fast. I take your point that once they had some investment they built good cars but don't pretend that they weren't selling total rubbish in the 70s.
JH
|
Stuart, you are joking? A neighbour had a Skoda Estelle. It rusted clean through in less than 12 months. Even British cars didn't rust that fast. I take your point that once they had some investment they built good cars but don't pretend that they weren't selling total rubbish in the 70s. JH
They weren't but I can't be bothered to argue about it. Estelles do rust but not that fast, indeed more slowly than a lot of favoured 70s cars. Your neighbour's example had been brought through Baltic storms as deck cargo or something, or he was exaggerating as people so often do. Perhaps he couldn't cope with his Skoda, was intimidated by the sneering of his ignorant friends and was just Tomming it up, sucking up to the majority view. There's a lot of it about.
|
Lud,
I watched it rust, this was no hear-say. The same as a lot of Estelles did. If VW hadn't rescued them and pumped money in then all of the engineering in the world wouldn't have saved them.
JH
|
Lud, I watched it rust, this was no hear-say. The same as a lot of Estelles did. If VW hadn't rescued them and pumped money in then all of the engineering in the world wouldn't have saved them. JH
Obviously can't gainsay you there. But I do assure you that had I been your neighbour at the right moment you might have a more nuanced view of Estelles.
|
ived traded many estelles and dont remember the rust being a problem,worn king pins yes, headgaskets yes,burnt valves yes,funniest thing was finding the boot release on the first one i had ,now that took some head scratching.
--
\"a little man in a big world/\"
|
|
|
|
And of the Fiat: it certainly looks right, definitely an improvement over its handsome but slightly fussy predecessor.
I note from an earlier test of the Citroen C3 that HJ is enamoured of these new-generation small diesels. Can't wait to try one.
|
How does a discussion about the new Punto get onto one about Skoda Estelles rusting in 6 contributions?
It´s a wonderful place the Backroom!
|
How does a discussion about the new Punto get onto one about Skoda Estelles rusting in 6 contributions?
Before being dragged back on topic, Estelles (I don't think the domestic models were called that) are still a very common sight in the Czech Republic. They don't seem to have the original seats but most of them appear roadworthy.
|
|
Yeah but just try getting parts in Prague. There may still be some in the provinces but in Prague they can't wait to charge into the modern era. You can't blame them of course having been stuck with nothing but Skodas all that time (Tatras were for the few). It's easier for us to enjoy a bit of Communist-era austerity chic, enjoying it for what it is. The Czechs have had it up to here.
|
I agree about Prague v provinces. The former has shed its motoring image like a cloak but the latter, where family funds tend to be much tighter and traditions more ingrained, is changing more slowly. Friends my age (forties) who have been entreprenurial enough to grab the cherries that fell from the Communist tree are wealthy even by UK standards (one drives an S8 and an A8 W12 plus a new Grand Cherokee) but much of the older generation still rue the end of Communism. Slowly though in my wife's town of Krnov over on the Polish border the old ?kodas and Lada are being replaced with Clios, Puntos (thread connection!), and all manner of Korean shopping trollies. A sprinkling of A4s and 320s are on the roads now, too.
Back to old ?kodas in a Punto thread.... ;-)
My Czech father in law - out in the sticks - still runs his early Eighties bright yellow ?koda 105.
Steering - Teaspoon in yoghurt. I kid you not but the first 10 degrees of steering wheel displacement make no difference to direction.
Suspension - Odd. With a whopping great new LPG tank next to the engine in the back and the front mounted fuel tank empty but for a couple of litres kept for cold starting, the nose of the car is sky high with huge negative camber on the front wheels! Great fun to drive in the snow, horrid, horrid, horrid at any other time.
Bodywork - More red primer in evidence each time we visit.
Engine - Totally bulletproof. Sits outside in -20 deg C, starts on the button using petrol, and fast idles on the autochoke. Switch over to LPG, and drive off. Never, ever, goes wrong and everything is original bar normal consumables. Certainly no headgasket failure as alluded to for this motor in another thread. BIL until recently ran the ?koda model that even predates this one (Seventies) and the engine in that too just went on and on. Tin worm eventually killed the car.
Safety - What safety? The front seats are free to run backwards and forwards as the ratchet pins are long broken. FIL "doesn't see this as a problem" as he is a Big Guy so keeps the seat pressed hard back on the stops anyway!!!!!!! The inertia reel seat belts are gummy in action. The steering as mentioned is vague and the handling "interesting". The bodywork looks as if it would crumple by looking at it, no seats have headrests, and with afrorementioned ride angle the headlights point skywards. The brakes work though. 'Ish. Oh yes, FIL often drives with things piled up on the rear parcel shelf too...
Emissions - Yes, plenty, probably, though no visible smoke.
Power - what power? When four up, the hill that my V70 will romp up in fourth gear and low RPM at 30mph if so requested requires first gear and REVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVS! Sounds quite good in a Hillman Imp hillclimber kind of way!
|
|
Should also have mentioned that when it comes to domestically produced new cars of course Octavia turbodiesels are the businessman's Vectra 1.8 and Fabias are as common as muck. I have only seen a few Aygos, and no C1s or 107s, despite they being budget cars produced in Kolín, Czech Republic. A friend's boyfriend works at the factory and can only dream of buying one.
|
|
|
Interesting post SjB. Of course all my Estelles were muscle cars, I've never driven a 105. It must be even slower on gas! Estelle 130s while not fast could keep up with and even humiliate home counties Eurotraffic.
Wonder if you can source me a bargain-priced mint Tatra through yr relations? Actually I suppose the Germans have got them all by now.
|
Wonder if you can source me a bargain-priced mint Tatra through yr relations? Actually I suppose the Germans have got them all by now.
I'd have to find two as I'd want one first!
I've seen a few, but all ropey.
Perhaps the Germans did get there already.
Certainly the converse is true and the Czechs are currently buying many second hand cars from Germany.
Given their record of a byegone European chapter of history I was sorry to see in the BBC news photo album that a 130 was a victim of the Buncefield explosion. Another one bites the dust.
A Czech friend however has just built a replica of the works rally car that was based on the S110R coupe (one of these: www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/4536/s110r.htm...v ) using genuine ?koda parts wherever possible and convincing alternatives where not. He's made an excellent job of it too using plentiful photos of the genuine article as reference points. On its lumpy cams that use the same lift and duration as the genuine rally car it pops and howls like a good-un, too!
|
A Czech friend however has just built a replica of the works rally car that was based on the S110R coupe (one of these: www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/4536/s110r.htm...v ) using genuine ?koda parts wherever possible and convincing alternatives where not. He's made an excellent job of it too using plentiful photos of the genuine article as reference points. On its lumpy cams that use the same lift and duration as the genuine rally car it pops and howls like a good-un, too!
And goes like a demure, fun-loving rocket I shouln't wonder. In the transport room of the science and technology museum in Prague there's a late Skoda Estelle coupe racer, stripped out with roll cage, love one of those in road trim to teach a lesson to all these modern things... Other nice cars too but not a single proper commissar's Tatra!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Fiat 125 twin cam ,124 twin cam .The 125 body mouldings were bought by FSO what a disaster and the 124 by Lada,the 124 coupe was a dream of a motor.
|
|
|
Good luck to 'em. When I started work my manager had a Fiat, can't remember which one, but it had a twin cam engine and 5 speed box in the days when these were unheard of technical luxuries. It went like stink too.
When I was a kid in the '70's, my Dad changed jobs and went from a Mk3 Cortina company car, to buying a Fiat 131 Supermirafiori. This was a revelation after the Ford, with a twin cam 1.6 with raspy Italian exhaust note, 5-speed box as you say. Also it had velour seats which were the height of luxury after black vinyl.
In the showrooms at the time though was the Mirafiori Sport with 2.0 litre TC Abarth engine, twin headlights, recaro seats etc. A proper quick car in its day.
Strangely when I was at Uni in Brighton in the early '90's there were 2 Mirafiori Sports being run as taxi's. I assumed the drier climate down there had stopped them from rotting away!..
|
|
|
|
