I test drove a Forrester 2.0 turbo and a Legacy 3.0 in quick succession. The Forrester rolled and wallowed: not a car on country bends imo. Indeed I will go further: all that power is straight line only. The Legacy was much better but compared to a Fiesta or a BMW or other drivers cars neither were nice to drive on corners: minimal feedback and some roll. Depreciation on Legacies makes Ladas look good. madf
Early 2004 I had a 2003 Legacy saloon for about a month (covered 1000 miles in it). Sadly it was only the 2.0i, but a superb drive nonetheless, especially on a winding country roads (of which there are many in my neck of the woods). Very very good adhesion and balance, and none of that 5-series 'nervousness' from the back when you hit a bump mid-corner on a damp road, the suspension and AWD just soaks it up. You have to take more than a 5-minute test drive to appreciate these cars. Couple that with class-leading safety, impeccable engineering and a spacious body and you have a very fine car indeed. I have no axe to grind on this, I don't own a Suby. As to depreciation - well, think about it, a new Legacy 2.0 for £10999 from Motorpoint or a 520i at about 3 times the price - which is going to lose you more money over 3 years?
The Legacy was followed by a SAAB 9-5 2.0t auto (with paddle shifters on the wheel) - again, a very nice car with very smooth power delivery, but I really missed the Legacy.
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MY sister-in-law drives one. I have never been behind the wheel, so can't comment on that aspect, but the reliability has been utterly perfect. Also, she loves the car (but that's just a subjective comment)
V
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Two of my friends own legacys, Although fuel economy is poor the handiling and conering is superb as is the grip on conering and in general. The forester has far more body roll and is not as good for long journeys. reliabilty has not been an isue for either driver both have owned suburus for years.
From the brief test drive I took a while ago and the glowing reports I will certainly consider one if my needs change (right now I do inseficnt mielage to justify a new car)
Paul
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Evo ran a Forester 2.5XT and were favourable. I drove both a 2.0 Forester and a 2.5 Leggy estate - ended up buying the Legacy. Hugely impressed and getting over 30mpg overall. Handling is superb. Got a test drive in a Spec B next month - am seriously tempted.
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I am really surprised about comments on the wallowy and rolling feel of the Forester. I can't say I had that problem with the 2.0l normal aspirated one I had. Sure, you can't throw it around like a Maxda sport, or a Lotus, but for a 4x4 I am sure it handled much better than a 4x4 driver is entitled to expect.
I managed to hustle it very nicely along the bends in the South Hams of Devon as well as Essex and Suffolk. I was always impressed with how much you could push it.
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Although handaling is reasnable in the forester and beter than my trooper by miles the legacy is far more comfortable and IMHO the beter ride.
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The reason I'm considering a Forester is that I live half a mile up a heavily potholed dirt track so my car often looks like a pigsty but I don't want a full off/soft roader just for that 2 or 3 mins of farm track each way. 4WD is sometimes handy round our way though - steep hills on ungritted lanes.
I do like the idea of car styled like an outhouse but which can also shift but being able to do so only in a straight line would be frustrating to me. I try to curb my inner hooligan by driving with a light right foot and mostly I manage it but it doesn't always succeed.
After the troubles I've had with my current car reliability is a big plus and the relative rarity of a Subaru also appeals.
Legacy appeals for the 98% of my driving which is on tarmac and I'd be interested to know how they deal with rough tracks/potholes.
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I supose it depends on the depth of the pot holes. One of my friends works as a vet so I presume his legacy must cope with similar pot holes.
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The Outback has the same ground clearance as the Forester....just longer overhangs front and rear which doesnt really matter for potholes and uneven tracks.
For reference I had my Outback in rural NSW, about 1/3 of my usual driving was on unsealed gravel roads, very uneven, corrugated and potholed and usually taken at speed. Never had a clearance problem.
StarGazer
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Just to add to this from my earlier posting.
The handling is nowhere near as wallowy as made out. It can be hustled very easily along windy roads. Clearly not an MX-5, but far superior to every other SUV type vehicle and on par with 99% of most regular cars. It is excellent for potholes and the like, and the new 2.0 non-turbo with less stiff suspension will be even better and give a more relaxing drive. If I wasn buying new today, I would have the non-Turbo Auto with leather and All-Weather Pack.
As stated before, my father has the non-Turbo. I have driven both cars over long distances and on the motorway, both are superb cruisers. Where the poster above says that they are not, he is mistaken. Both have good responses at motorway speeds to overtake quickly and with 4WD, ABS and slightly raised driving height, you feel very much in command.
The Lagacy has a regular drive height and the Outback is about the same height as the Forester (possibly lower by 10mm), but is much more expensive. Lovely car though, and I almost bought one, but as people may remember, I was 'given' my Forester by a kind father, who preferred his older model to the newer one, having already bought the new one!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Last summer I went along as a passenger with a friend who took his old Alfa to one of those hillclimb experience days at Prescott (hq of the Bugatti Owners' Club).
There were lots of fancy motors (Caterham etc) there, mostly not driven well, but one of the best performers of the day was a guy in a Forester! Over lunch he told me he had an Austin 7 as well but the Subaru was just as much fun!
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This has been a fascinating thread.The Legacy seems a good but not widely recognised car.
I am intigued by the pricing of the new and used Legacies I have seen at Motorpoint, Autotrader and Ebay.
Can any Backroomer advise regarding the following.
1 Motorpoint have the same Legacy for £5,000 less than
Autotrader. What are the differences apart from the price ticket.
2 Autotrader only has one private seller. I wonder why almost all of the sellers of this model are trade.
3. I have a suspicion that, Legacies may be diifficult to sell second hand. Could it be the case that they are sold for under book, unlike the Mondeo in Garrison's recent post.
Your thoughts please.
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Subaru UK often seem to import more cans than the market wants so each summer they run big promotions to clear "demonstrators" - i.e. pre-registered stock. You'll see that they still have '05 model year details up on their web site. A few years ago, they had some old shape cars in stock for several years before they were all cleared.
The Subarus Motorpoint are offering are probably grey market imports from Cyprus (or another European RHD market).
I suspect that nearly-new Legacies aren't much in demand. First, SUVs and MPVs are more in vogue and secondly used buyers would go for a prestige German marque. Having said that, I was surprised when I sold my 5 series last year how few calls I had when the car was in Autotrader.
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Just to add to this from my earlier posting. The handling is nowhere near as wallowy as made out
Hear hear! I had the 2.0L Xln. The Forester is slightly higher off the ground than an estate car and slightly lower than your average 4X4. The boxer engine, a flat 4, is low slung so you have a good low centre of gravity. Read the "what car" review of the Forester and you will see there how well they think it handles.
Why did I change it? Coming up for retirement and wanted my pension money to do more miles to the gallon. The one thing you can say about the Forester (in whatever guise you buy one) is that it drinks like Oliver Reed used to. Apart from that, it is solid, well built, very comfortable, lacks the squeaks and rattles of many more expensive cars, and is quite handsome looking compared to others.
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I think you have to see it in context. For the type of car it is, the Forester handles well - it is certainly a cut above anything else with high ground clearance and off-road potential. It is not as good as the Legacy though, which is 'superb' rather than 'good'.
The snag with the Legacy saloon is that it is a very unloved car on the secondhand market. Used estate models seem to sell well enough though. The same is true of the Imprezza's; i.e. turbo'd models sell well, 5-door wagon sells reasonable, but the non-turbo GX Sport saloon is difficult to shift and depreciates hard, despite the fact it is a good car.
Incidentally, all the AWD Suby's have many common parts. It used to be the case, for example, the things like discs and CV joints were common accross Imprezza, Legacy, Forester. Don't know if that's the case with the very latest models though.
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Just to re-iterate some of the above comments, I am on my seventh Subaru - the latest being a new model Outback 2.5 SE which is an absolute dream of a car.
I have dipped into other marques over the years but nothing comes close to the Subaru experience for me. The dealer I use is friendly, local, efficient and I am treated like an individual, they know me by name (as they should after buying 7 cars....!) and I can count the number of non-service visits to the dealer on one hand without using the thumb. Remember, this is over 7 cars of different models so a mileage of something like 245,000. Reliability is peerless in my experience.
I think Subarau ownership is an acquired taste though - you either 'get it' or you don't - there is a certain something about the cars but I can also see why people are scared about them.
Initially, in the showroom, I can see why folk might say 'what's so special about them' compared to the all-singing all-dancing gizmo-laden interiors of other marques, and I think Aprila mentioned this, the delights of Subaru only come apparent after several months of ownership - the sure-footedness, the reliability, the simple fact that the car does what it should without any fuss, breakages or bother.
Fuel consumption is the ONLY downer to Subarau ownership as far as I can see, but if you can put up with this then you can enjoy fantastic engineering provided in a very subtle and unobtrusive way (apart frm the Sti's of course...)
My Outback has 20,000 miles on it, it is paid for in full, it is averaging 30mpg and I quite honestly can not think of a more enjoyable and useful car to have on the drive.
jdc
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Well, I chose to drive the Legacy. The Forester just isn't me.
I drove a 2.5 auto and was very impressed. The 2.0 manual I found to be perfectly capable but pressing on at motorway speed revealed the difference between them. It had very little in reserve.
If I can get the right vehicle at the right price it might finally be goodbye Audi.
Thanks again for all the valuable comments it is much appreciated. I'll let you know.
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If you are talking about buying brand new just bear in mind the 2006MY 2.0i engine is significantly upgraded from 2003>2005 model. The new engine has about 20% more power IIRC, and similar economy. Was it the 2006 engine that you drove?
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You're quite right Aprilia. The dealer pointed this out and also mentioned that it is thirstier than the 2.5, not sure whether this is true.
I'm looking at 53/04/54 plates.
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Just a small query, having looked at some photos on the web:
There is a small lever / handle to the left of the handbrake and rear of the gear lever (on the Legacy): What does this do?
Cheers.
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I think you are referring to the low ratio gear box selector - only available on manual models.
This selects lower ratios for use in really bad conditions.
In several years of owning various Subaru, some with this facility, I don't recall using it once ....
jdc
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Thanks, that would make sense now.
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Low ratio - very useful in jams - stick the car in 1st in low ratio and trundle along. No braking, declutching etc.
Bit like the old Landrover trick - engane low gear , hop out and walk alongside car. Haven't tried this on the M4 yet though.
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Quick addendum for Nsar
I mentioned somewhere up the thread that I was getting 28 mpg from my 2.5 Legacy auto. On a recent long run (A roads and Motorways) that climbed to 32 mpg, the best I've seen yet and pretty respectable, I think.
Incidentally, I'm currently in a remote part of the Colorado Rockies, and the place is crawling with Outbacks and Legacy wagons - just like parts of Australia, which says much about their suitability on poor roads. Unlike the piece of junk Buick Lacrosse hire car I'm lumbered with - but that's for another thread...
Rgds
Davros
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Nsar
If you are in the north Manchester area, I would gladly let you have a go in my Outback 2.5 SE for a couple of hours if it would be any use/interest. I am so chuffed with this car I can't understand why I don't see more around.
As a matter of interest, I work for a reputed (or overpriced, depending on your viewpoint.....!) breakdown company and in the last year I have had to rescue ONE Subaru that I can recall. The number of Saab's is in the 100's, ditto BMW, Mercedes, VW, Vauxhall etc.etc. but very few Japanese apart from older Toyota, but certainly no Subaru.
That says it all really...
jdc
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JDC, I can't turn down an offer like that - check your email shortly, I'll email you via the mods. Thanks.
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Just thought I'd report in.
I picked up my Legacy on Saturday in Cheltenham and managed a displayed 37mpg on the run back to North Manchester - all very calm at (ahem) 70mph all the way. I even used the cruise control which is a lot better designed than the one I had in the 9-5.
My kids find the concept of heated seats hysterical and my 9 year old son, used to an interior designed long before he was born has declared that cup holders are "mint".
Had some fun with it today, corners are now things to be relished again after 3 years with the A6 and in two days of ownership I have yet to see another.
I have put the A6 up on Autotrader today and no doubt I'll have some fun and games on that particular experience to report.
Thanks again to the BR people who responded to this thread - special thanks to Espada and JDC who bother offered a run in their Subarus - you don't know how close you came to emotional ruin by my not taking up your offers.
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"Thanks again to the BR people who responded to this thread - special thanks to Espada and JDC who bother offered a run in their Subarus"
Your welcome! I look forward to seeing yours someday.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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