It's the time of year when I usually start thinking about a 4WD car. I have a 50-mile round trip commute to work and there's a nice winding bit in the middle which got a bit hairy in the recent snow.
Does 4WD offers any significant advantages over a FWD (or RWD) car with stability control?
Sorry if this has been done before: I did try a search but couldn't find anything.
HNY.
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Stevie
Lakland 44-02 Sunburst
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Yes, significant advantages. Not always enough for most people to warrant the extra cost in fuel and maintainance of the 4wd system. I suggest you test drive a 4wd with good setup (subaru??) in poor weather conditions , and see what you think.
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I live in northern Scotland and we get a regular covering of snow from November to February (and we don't whinge about it !)
In the six years I've had the quattro I've not even had wheelspin and certainly not had a hairy moment on the road.
When finding a deserted, snow covered car park in which to practice it's really difficult to get it to unstick, even doing mad things.
Quattro delivers no advantage in braking but when you're used to these conditions you automatically up the braking distances in winter and treat the big pedal with great caution.
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I did try a search but couldn't find anything.
Site search or forum search? The site search is for searching topics OUTSIDE of the Forum only.
More info here:-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=33878
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Site search or forum search? The site search is for searching topics OUTSIDE of the Forum only.
Forum search. Didn't help. But I'm new: I may have missed something.
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I run an old Defender which I use for the commute to work in dodgy weather. It has other various domestic tasks which it undertakes with aplomb. I'd prefer a Japanese thing if the Landie was my sole mode of transport.
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It´s a bit repetitive of my contributions to other threads this week, but think about getting a set of winter tyres on steel rims for the months Nov -March. Assuming the car you have now is FWD then you won´t have any more trouble - they make an amazing difference. And if it´s RWD they´ll still help a great deal, obviously.
Plus that way you won´t be lugging around a 4WD transmission for the rest of the year that you may not need.
If you have a convenient place to store the other set that would help too....mine are on the wall of the garage
BTW I have absolutely nothing against 4WD cars! In fact I´d love a Quattro. Make mine an A6 TDi estate please...
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Whilst I remember - check the ´Winter Tyres´thread for a concise discussion of the relative merits of this option! Think it´s on page 2.
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My 1989 Defender is the best vehicle in combating all and any winter road conditions thrown at it. And for any other task towing etc it is second to none (in my opinion!)I have owned many cars, vans, and 4x4 vehicles this is the outright winner.
(happy new year to everyone)
{Shouting amended. i.e. Posting soley in UPPER CASE letters. DD}
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Judging by the way some were driven during the recent snowy weather the law of physics does not apply to them.
Firm application of the brake pedal, regardless of road surface, can achieve retardation in excess of 1g - when they hit something!
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4 wheel drive will only get you as far as the blockage caused by 2 wheel drive vehicles, lorries etc stuck in the conditions.
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My arrival would be welcomed at the blockage described as my landy would rescue, and pull clear any and most vehicles that were causing such obstruction. They would all then be on there way home and my good deed for the day done. Landrover defenders other than expensive (even for aged vehicles) are truly a god send in some situations. Thanks.
{Shouting amended again! i.e. Posting soley in UPPER CASE letters. DD}
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I think you missed the point(he says quietly)
The road is blocked and you cannot get past the vehicles to get to the front of the queue to start doing your good deeds.
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4WD type vehicles also have an advantage in any weather for something which I call 'urban off roading'. i.e. with larger wheels and a little extra ground clearance the ability to climb high curbs and negotiate the edge of the occasional block paved areas in car parks etc. can sometimes be useful in helping you make good progress.
I once was also stuck in the outside lane of an urban dual carriageway (30MPH limit) for 20 minutes with the traffic at a standstill and going nowhere. Whatever the hold up was must have been affecting the oncoming carriageway also as that was totally devoid of traffic. The humped and blocked paved central reservation of the dual carriageway was negotiated with ease in my Toyota RAV4 as I did a 'U' turn over it to take myself home via another route. A vehicle with shallower approach and departure angles, and a lesser ramp over angle would have bottomed out or scraped its valances attempting the manouvre.
Yes 4WD vehicles often have an advantage over 2WD vehicles by nature of having more driven wheels, a higher ground clearance, and higher driving position. The trade off is that they do not corner as well as cars and can sometimes be a bit less fuel efficient. Also on wet and icy roads they will slide just as easily as any 2WD drive vehicle does so don't get lured into a false sense of security!
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"4 wheel drive will only get you as far as the blockage caused by 2 wheel drive vehicles, lorries etc stuck in the conditions."
I agree with mjm. My legacy is very sure on icy roads, up to about three inches of snow, but totally useless at the end of a queue where no-one else can move.
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i had a subaru justy last year, cheap cracking throwaway four wheel drive car,maybe ideal if you are on a tight budget?
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I've been hugely impressed with my Legacy in the recent snow here in Lincolnshire. Very sure-footed compared to any fwd or rwd I've driven in snow. The biggest worry is other 4wd drivers who think they can defy the laws of physics. The standard of driving in snow and ice is appalling. Have people no idea?
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What nick said - 4WD, even in cars with top notch handling characteristics in the wet and dry can not defy the laws of physics when it comes to ice and snow. Acknowledge and respect this and 4WD can be lots of fun in the ice and snow!!!
A 4WD motor can make just as big a muppet out of you when it lets go, it can also be more tricky to recover. where it comes into its own is in getting you moving or getting you up a hill.
Where a lot of people go wrong is when it comes to getting stopped - AWD will do little or nothing more to aid stopping on snow or ice than any other car.
Leon
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Take it from me, when hey let go, they let go big style......
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it amazes ma that people cant stand up next to their cars due to snow/ice but expect 4xsize8"s to keep them on the road once they are behind the wheel.(if you understand me?)
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I still remember a business trip from snowy Norfolk to icy London in 1970 in an MG 1100 - didn't skid once and was very impressed with the stability given by front-wheel drive.
I got out on to the pavement in London and promptly fell over. I haven't got FWD feet, unfortunately.
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The impression I'm getting from the wise words above is that winter tyres are more important than 4WD, and that (at least for me) FWD may be better than RWD. I would love a Legacy but HAVE YOU SEEN HOW MUCH THEY COST TO RUN?
I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that I need to get the car into a garage to change the wheels each October and each March * 2.
How much difference does stability control (in whatever guise) make?
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Stevie
Lakland 44-02 Sunburst
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Unless you live in the Scottish Highlands or somewhere where months of snow are guaranteed, 4WDs are nice to haves rather than necessities.
That said, I had an impressive demonstration of their qualities the day before yesterday. We live on a hill, and after about half an inch of snow the road was very slippery. It was quite difficult standing upright. I had to go out to collect my daughter, and so I tried to get the car going. It slithered down the drive and then rested against the hedge, impossible to move.
A friend came round in his Defender, and we drove off at normal speed. It hardly slipped at all, just a little shuffle on tight bends if he spun the wheel too fast. It pulled fast up a 1 in 5, and equally seemed to have plenty of braking effect going downhill too.
Years ago I went round househunting in the country driving a Series 3 in about 6 inches of snow. It never showed the least sign of having any difficulty gripping or holding the road on corners.
But for the other 51 weeks in the year it was a gas-guzzling monster, heavy and uncomfortable. It would be nice to have one as a spare in reserve.
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Cliff,
I agree with most of what you say, but remember that 4x4 have more to offer than traction in snowy conditions.
PU Towers' Defenders tasks are as follows.
1. Servicing a local shoot at least three times a week where even the most brilliant fwd car would be bogged down or have its lovely paintwork ruined.
2. Carrying two wheelie bins to the end of our track (wouldn't want to do that in a five series)
3. Monthly checks of fencing/walls and renewing same
4. Trips to local Tesco where its hard enough to brush off trolley strikes and attacks by lesser vehicles.
5. Supporting the farmer who rents our fields in lambing, its out tonight in fact.
6. Sleeping quarters for a phsycotic Springer (he chose it himself)
7. Down the local pub/rest. Cleaned it can arrive with dignity at any venue.
8. Family transport come the snows.
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If you mearly need extra traction I would go for a suburu forester or legacy or even audi quatro. If towing ability is needed then go for a proper 4x4.
My work ocashionaly involves doing very heavy towing and calllouts in bad weather so my isuzu trooper has its place however although relativly comfortable I mutch prefer either the mondeo for normal domestic use or the sprinter van for routine work.
The isuzu costs a fortune in diesl if driven as a normal vehicle. As a matter of course I always keep a couple of straps and a D shackle in case, I do get stuck and this has proved handy both in rescueing others and once myself.
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Absolutely right, PU - you are obviously one of those people who really need a AWD. Most people who want off-road capability just want a fashion accessory for ordinary road use, but justify their extravagance on the two days a year when they find a bit of snow a good excuse.
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>>I would love>> a Legacy but HAVE YOU SEEN HOW MUCH THEY COST TORUN?
Nearly 33 mpg over 13,000 miles from my 2.5 Tourer. 12,000 service - £150. Not cheap, but not that expensive either....
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