Another rip off is the old diagnostic machine scam, making out to customers its a complicated and highly technical process
You can buy from e-bay quality hand held diagnostic computers that do exactly the same thing as the dealers one for about £40
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What i would say to all these people that think main dealers are rip offs is that no one forces you to take your car there and if you think they are charging too much why not set up your own dealer charging what you think is a reasonable amount and see how long the business lasts.
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Main dealers charge what they can get away with. A huge percentage of new car sales are to companies (direct on on lease)for corporate use, and the main dealers' bills never get queried. I remember all these stunts from 20 years ago when I had a company Beemer - One service was for over £600 - exactly what I paid for my most recent banger two weeks ago! My favorite item has to be the screenwash. After I wised to it I filled it up the day it went in, and still they charged for it - the looks I got when I queried it (and held up the collection queue) from the guys collecting their 7 series...
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Main dealers charge what they can get away with. A huge percentage of new car sales are to companies (direct on on lease)for corporate use
Most lease companies have pre-agreed lower rates for labour and often discounted parts too. A lot pf leasing companies have ex-mechanics working in their maintenance departments so they know what is right for the job and they do take things up with dealers.
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you still have to know what do do with the results though,and pay everyones wages at the site etc,plus at main dealers they have approved diagnostic machines that may be updated daily who is going to pay for all this?
My advise to anyone that doesnt want to pay, dont go, end of.
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The Ford dealer I use does not rip me off. In fact sometimes I wonder how they manage to stay in business. When I have my car serviced they will either collect the car from my house or take me home after I have driven there, and they will deliver the car back to my house when it is finished. Small jobs like adjusting the parked position of the wipers they have in the past done for nothing while I waited. Prices for servicing are as low as I've seen at any dealer, and tyre prices are extremely competitive. When I needed a replacement windscreen they arranged it for free.
You can't tar all dealers with the same brush.
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L\'escargot.
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L'escargot, I am sure the mods will allow you to name this dealer.......
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L'escargot, I am sure the mods will allow you to name
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in fact there is a whole section devoted to doing just this (good garages) on this web site. - accessed via the directories link on hte left.
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there is a whole section devoted to doing just this
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in case some of you cannot find it, the link is
www.honestjohn.co.uk/directories/index.htm?blk=Dir...s
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The Renault dealer I use is very good, always eager to help quickly and their charges are not too bad. A main dealer is never going to be cheap is it?
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Main dealers put enormous efforts into the trappings of 'customer care'. Psychologically, we feel that if we are met politely at service reception, given coffee while we wait and presented with a clean car at the end, then what goes on in the workshop must be of an equally high standard.
To my mind, the main dealers should be those with the highest degree of skill and knowledge in your particular model. Paying top whack for a a true expert to diagnose an obscure fault, using sophisicated / dedicated equipment is absolutely fine - provided that is what you're really paying for.
Here's the crunch. Dealers that are taking the highest rates must be able to demonstrate higher capabilities. These firms should be better regulated - even with something like 'league tables' of customer satisfaction. Eg, I'd like to know 'how often on average does a customer have to take his car back in order to get the same fault resolved'.
At those prices, it should virtually be first time every time and if they claim that is unrealistic then there is a very significant need for ongoing training from the franchise concerned.
Graeme
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Main dealers put enormous efforts into the trappings of 'customer care'. Psychologically, we feel that if we are met politely at service reception, given coffee while we wait and presented with a clean car at the end, then what goes on in the workshop must be of an equally high standard.
Personally I would rather a competent mechanic give me a grease stained bill and tell me IN DETAIL what was done and why. Im not interested in vases of flowers, cofee machines and blokes in white shirts whose function is indeterminate !
The problem with almost all of these dealers is a lack of emphasis on the real guys who do the work and too much emphasis on 'front office' frivolities, this is both unnecesary and ultimately costly to the customer.
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>> there is a whole section devoted to doing just this >> in case some of you cannot find it, the link is www.honestjohn.co.uk/directories/index.htm?blk=Dir...s
Is this list regularly updated? I ask this because the garage listed in my locality has since been renamed.
I did contact them about service costs (they were Citroen specialists) and was disappointed to find their labour charges are almost on a par with the Citroen main dealer
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Is this list regularly updated?
Only if HJ is regularly informed, I would imagine.
"(Satisfied customers: if you'd like to recommend a favourite garage, tell us why in an email to mailto:goodgarages@honestjohn.co.uk with the garage's name, address and telephone number.)"
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Its a topic that often comes up. Basically dealers are like any business and are set up to make money for their owners. With lots of competition in new car sales they tend to see service and parts supply as the profit generating areas of the business. Typical main dealer will have a parts manager and a service manager each on, say, £20-25k plus a car, with up to £15k on bonus, conditional on meeting targets. Additionally, most of the service guys will be semi-skilled 'bonus monkeys' who get a few quid every time they find a bit of extra work on your car. They are effectively on 'piece rate' which means the faster they get through the work, the more they get paid. There will probably be one really sharp 'techie' in the 'shop, who does diagnostics and deals with all the awkward to fathom cases (and probably ends up earning less than the bonus monkeys for his trouble). At the end of the day these guys are not there for their love of motors, their job is to part you from as much of your money as possible so that they end up with a bit more in their pay packet at the end of the month.
I think Aprilia's post is absolutely spot on, and chimes perfectly with my, albeit outdated, experience.
'Factory Trained' - means the chap has spent at least one day being trained by someone from outside the dealer.
'Technician' - very rarely will you come across a genuine technician, i.e., one who has taken a technician level apprenticeship and passed technician level exams. The vast majority of mechanics don't go beyong C+G part two. 'Technician' is just another example of job title inflation - similar to the chap who mends your washing machine risibly being called an engineer - grrrrrr!!
Of course the customer loses out, and is, to an extent ripped off. Those who think otherwise are being more than a little naive.
Speaking of naive - alas, this is usually the techie that Aprilia mentions. Being off bonus, he probably doesn't earn much, and is greatly undervalued because of his lower contribution to the workshop targets. Sadly, the techie is one of the very few who is there because he loves cars, but he also is being taken for a ride by the dealer.
Dealers rely upon customer's fear, uncertainty, and doubt to keep people bringing their car in for over priced servicing by the 'experts'.
Over 90% of the work that is done in a dealer's workshop could just as well be done by any skilled mechanic. Of the remaining 10%, most of this is the silly electronics dignosis for which outside of engine management, there is no common diagnosis protocol - of course, the motor industry are in no hurry to standardise.
Growling over...
Number_Cruncher
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One of the best assets of a dealer is a smart reception lounge and a good looking, intelligent, girl on reception.
I had a demonstration of an air temperature guage on one of the early Sierra Ghias, and was very impressed by the flashing snowflake as the temperture dropped towards evening. When I ordered my new Volvo 340 1.7 I specified an air temperature guage, and was very pleased by the way it worked. For some reason though I convinced myself that it should also have a flashing light. I watched and watched, but no light. When I delivered it for servicing I asked the girl on reception to make sure that the technician described the workings to me. She kindly explained to me that because the Swedes had such cold weather the light didn't come on until minus 15. I was mightily impressed by her smoothness. That night I looked at the face of the guage by torchlight and saw that what I had thought was a light bulb was actually a sunken screwhead. I regarded her with with great respect after that.
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I've popped into into my local Volkswagen main dealer several times in the last few years for one reason or another.
The two girls on the reception desk are both at least 20 times more knowledgeable and savvy than the service manager and his "technicians" put together.
One reason why I avoid its servicing department (and main dealership charges) and use National for oil and filter changes and similar work, even though I have to travel a few miles to reach the nearest National outlet.
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A further point is the infamous 'held & safety'.
A private owner, do what you like but expect a lower resale price if you don't use a main dealer.
A company owner must provide new cars, replace then after three years and use ONLY main dealers for the simple reason that if an employee has an accident and the cause is traced back to faulty servicing then if he has used a main dealer he can argue he did all he possibly could to make the car safe. If he has used anyone other than a main dealer then the lawyers will skin him alive in court.
Employers should also know where they pay mileage for an employee to use his private car for business they are under the SAME duty of care as if it was company vehicle. A point few smaller employers even know much less comply with.
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Interesting. Does that mean my employer should have to pay me more than the 19.5p per mile I get? What is the actual legislation I would need to look at?
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19.5ppm, Yikes, I used to get 35ppm back in 1995, I now pay myself 48ppm - When I worked for the RoyalMail you use to be able to claim 20ppm if you used a push bike for business use, and I used to get 12ppm for fuel alone because it was their car. Sounds like your firm are in the dark ages - Or I was very well off!!!
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The amount you get is normally based on the tax free amount of the benefit. If the car is yours you are allowed 40ppm if you are paid more you are taxed on the excess as income. If you get less you can fill in a tax return and claim tax relief against the difference. If the car is company then depending on the engine size you are allowed about 10p and as above if you get more you will be taxed on it as a benefit. The best system is wher the employer follows taxable rates as it is much easier but the some employers are rubbish and this is where they can easily reduce your package without you knowing
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Thommo,
lease companies also have to maintain their competitiveness within the market place which is pretty tight at present.
Our lease company which is in the top ten UK leasing companies has taken advantage of the EU legisation regarding block exemption and only refers warranty to work to a main dealer.
All other servicing is carried out by a local garage but to the manufacturers service schedule using OEM parts.
We're currently negotiating a discount on leasing costs as we expect some of the savings to be passed back to us.
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One reason why I avoid its servicing department (and main dealership charges) and use National for oil and filter changes and similar work, even though I have to travel a few miles to reach the nearest National outlet.
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Stuartli, how do you get National to put the correct spec oil in your VW?
My Passat needs 506.01 oil spec, my Focus needs 5W/30 and AFAIK National doesn't have this oil.
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When I bought my latest, quite low mileage, used Honda I was pleased to see it had a full main dealer service history. As I was taking it out of the UK and they wouldn't see it again I rang their service manager and asked him what oil they used so I could use the same stuff in future.
He said 'I don't know, I'll have to ask the technician'.
Somehow I've had niggling doubts about that service history ever since...
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>>Stuartli, how do you get National to put the correct spec oil in your VW?>>
The £15 Duckhams semi-synthetic oil and filter change covers my VW's requirements. Never had any problems in three years' experience of National undertaking this work.
The Ford engines (at least some of them?) do need the 5W/30 oil (I'm aware because my son had a 1.4 Zetec engine Fiesta), so he used to do the oil and filter changes himself after buying the oil and filter at a motor factors at trade price.
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One reason why I avoid its servicing department (and main > Stuartli, how do you get National to put the correct spec oil in your VW? My Passat needs 506.01 oil spec, my Focus needs 5W/30 and AFAIK National doesn't have this oil.
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National used the correct spec of oli in my Focus - I had to wait a day while they got it in, with the correct filter.
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