I'm tempted to buy a car privately from Mr.B, in town B. It's registered (he says) in his late father's name, Mr.A in town A, (he says he died two months ago).
Mr B has the V5, the original receipt, and other documentation for the car, but he understands my concern about proving his right to sell the car.
I intend to HPI it.
His mother appears to be ex-dirctory, so I can't verify it that way, although Mr B has given me what he says is her 'phone number.
Any suggestions on independant checks I can make to verify it's legitamacy. I'll be parting with about £5K.
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This sounds like a large potential problem to me. The car may not be his to sell, a phone number he has given you does not work, if I read you correctly. With 5k to spend and at this very slack time of year, for car sales, can't you locate something else that meets your needs without chancing your money on this particular deal? There are a lot of 5K cars out there! PS. If probate has not been declared on the will the car isn't his to sell, full stop!
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Going through this at the moment following my mothers recent death.
My understanding is as follows:
Probate needs to have been granted and he needs to be an executor, if there is more than one executor then they all need to agree to any action such as the sale of an asset.
Ask to speak to the solicitor who obtained probate for him and confirm he is an executor and if he is the sole executor, if he is not the sole executor it could get complicated.
If probate has been granted and he is the sole executor then all should be fine. Maybe ask to sign the V5 and hand over the cash at the solicitors offices? He signs the V5 as executor and attaches a copy of the death certificate to it plus a letter of explanation, you sign as normal and it should go smoothly from there.
Needless to say any umming and ahhing WALK AWAY!
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walk away and live to fight another day
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let me be the last to let you down....
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Thommo is spot on here. Bought my mother a car about six months ago. The son was selling his mother car as she had sadly died. I contacted solicitor and got everything in writing to confirm that the son was the executor and that he could sell the car. All information was supplied and I got my mother an excellent car.
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An interesting thread, as I had to do this about a year ago. I was selling my father-in-laws 8 month old Citroen Xsara on behalf of my elderly mother-in-law. I sold that car without any real problems as it was "as new" and anyone wanting one of these had no reason NOT to buy it. I experienced no problems with anyone asking about probate etc, in fact I can't remember who signed the V5 to say the car had changed hands. What I think we did was sign it on behalf of my dead father-in-law, and enclose a letter to DVLA saying the registed keeper was deceased. We had no problems with this, and the buyer was happy that he knew where to come if there was any problems.
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Roly,
With respect your buyer was either known to you personally or not very bright.
Likely DVLA just didn't check the signatures and it allowed it through on the nod but until probate has been granted the executor has no legal right to sell the car and the estate could reclaim the asset if it so wished, you would be in much the same boat legally as buying a stolen car.
Assuming its all above board then fine but this guy needs to proceed with caution.
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Why bother?
If the seller really was trying, he'd give you a copy of the probate, have it HPI'd amnd ensure everything was 100% ok.
The fact that he has not either means something is wrong or he's a muppet who may be doing something he's not entitled to.
When my brother and I had probate of our father's estate, we ensured everything was Ok and sold everything above board.
Walk away: he's lazy and therefore trouble or illegal and more trouble....
madf
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if the vendor wanted to lie why would he go to all that trouble? he could say he had just moved to house b this week.If the car is a bargain too good to miss go to house a and get an opinion,before you actually hand the cash over make sure you do the hpi
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Likely DVLA just didn't check the signatures and it allowed it through on the nod but until probate has been granted the executor has no legal right to sell the car
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people are making lots of assumptions here about probate, and when cars or other assets can be disposed of.
1. probate etc. don't always apply.
2. v5 is proof of keeper, not owner.
as for the intricacies of the law, wills, etc., there are more than a million aylum-seekers/refugees in this country, who don't give a monkeys about probate procedures.
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For the purposes of Probate the value of the car will be amongst the value of the deceased's estate. The car itself will be of little interest.
As the deceased is survived by his wife there will not be any Inheritence Tax issues as the estate will pass to her, notwithstanding any bequeathments.
When my late father died I wrote to the DVLA who simply transfered the vehicle into my mothers name. I also enclosed his Driving Licence. I cant remember but I dont think I even had to send a copy of the Death Certificate. Half the value of the car was added onto the forms sumitted to the Inland Revenue. Half would belong to the widow.
If you are really keen, why not try a visit to your library and check the Electoral Roll to see if the V5 and names at the address tie up. Does 192.com have an Electoral Role list?
Your local Registrar will have the death recorded
Fullchat
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Are we maybe missing another reason?
If Mr B is selling (HIS fathers car) shouldn?t the surname on the V5 be Mr B and not Mr A???.or has bathtub tom not explained this clearly?
Maybe the seller is a motor trader selling from home - posing as a private seller -and simply giving this story to cover why his name/address is not in the V5.
Like many of you I?ve bought a lot of cars and I would say 75% of private ads turn out to be dealers in disguise when you get to the house, all with a ?story? why the vehicle is not registered in their name. I?ve come across:
* I bought it for my wife and she finds it too big/small
* I bought it for my son/daughter and they can?t afford the insurance
* I?m selling for my mother/father-in-law as they are elderly and don?t want the hassle of dealing with buyers
* It?s been registered in my wife?s fathers name in X town with my wife as named driver to get her cheaper insurance
* I bought it for my son for when he returns from Uni but he just phoned to say he?s bought a car from a mate
* I bought it and then found out I?m getting a company car
* I bought it and found out I?m getting made redundant & can?t now afford it
Now possibly we can add
* It?s my fathers car and he has just died
Interestingly when you pitch up at the house to see cars where the excuses above are trotted out, there may be only the one car outside/or on the drive but when you look around there will be several freshly valeted cars closely parked with no tax discs in the windscreens.
Unless you can get independent confirmation of ownership/title then walk away?..plenty of other cars for sale
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Well the rules I was taught when buying second hand were the first two questions out of your mouth should be:
1. Is your name on the V5?
2. Will I be viewing the car at the address on the V5?
If the answer to either or these is no then walk away. As you say the excuses are nothing if not inventive.
However if it truly is a bargain as seems to bb being said then it might be worth the effort.
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Thanks for all the advice.
I got a copy of the deceased owners will, and a letter from the sole executor(I hope they're not forged). I bit the bullet. I gave the man his money, and I've got the car at home.
It didn't smell iffy, and I'm sure he wasn't a dealer(I've walked away from many of them).
Why they didn't transfer ownership to the widow I don't know, I did for my late father-in-law. Furthermore, why didn't they wash and vacuum it, or repair the scrapes on the bumpers before they sold it in the week before Christmas - it made the arguments for negotiation!
Let's hope it don't go wrong.
Anyone want to buy a diesel Focus? See classifieds.
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It sounds like you'll be OK with this one. The chances are you've come across someone who is entitled to dispose of the car but hasn't necessarily done things exactly as he should have. I doubt you'll have any problems.
One assumes that the will lists the sole executor by name, and that is the chap who sold you the car? The only other thing you could have got at this stage is proof that the death occurred. Either seeing an entry in the register or a copy of the death cert, to give you traceability.
It seems that this chap dealt with the car in the same way I set out to deal with my late mother's. I now know that my approach wasn't necessarily correct, although I knew that it couldn't be challenged, provided I acted in the interests of the estate.
I basically wanted to deal with that particular problem ASAP for insurance and depreciation purposes, plus we had no where to keep it where I could consider it safe. Minor scrapes etc would not have been dealt with but we may have cleaned the car out if we were to sell it priveately.
The value of the car appeared on the estate accounts so the solicitor who applied for probate was kept in the picture.
A dealer offered me a reasonable price for the car before pobate had been granted. I briefed them of the situation in full and he never mentioned any need for proof of my authority to sell it etc. In fact his offer went on the accounts as the probate value to be submitted.
I ended up paying a little more than that for the wife to have it.
Also Dalglish may have a point with Probate. IIRC there was a minimum value of some £15k for an item or funds to require probate, hence some assets such as money in accounts, I was told, does not necessarily require probate to be released, but I understand that they would still need to be included in the accounts submitted to Inland Revenue.
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