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According to an article written by JC (in "another place") about his recent visit to Iraq, Chris Goffey hosts a video briefing to arriving troops...
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did you see the video clip on the "other place" about the tank racing? - serious fun.
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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I want to do that ! Apparantly AA Gill tipped one on its end (talking an M1 Abrams here !) much to the shock horror of the watching Amercian experts. I really wanted to mention these links on this site, totally motoring related but you know the policy. (20 year old kid driving an armoured Range Rover through sniper alley - respect, total respect)
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I used to like it when it was presented by that chap with the beard who used to edit Autocar (Mike Goff was it??) - it had some authority then. It went to pot when Clarkson joined - with his 'public school buffoon' antics and dumbed-down analysis ("the ashtray slides out as if its running on ball-bearings" stuff). Now it has a kind of 'lads mag' atmosphere - and I suspect the presenters have little technical knowledge of cars.
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I used to like it when it was presented by that chap with the beard who used to edit Autocar (Mike Goff was it??) - it had some authority then. It went to pot when Clarkson joined - with his 'public school buffoon' antics and dumbed-down analysis ("the ashtray slides out as if its running on ball-bearings" stuff). Now it has a kind of 'lads mag' atmosphere - and I suspect the presenters have little technical knowledge of cars.
Every 'serious' motoring programme on TV has been a flop in terms of viewing figures.
If we accept it is 'lad's mag' TV with a motoring theme, we can enjoy it for what it is.
Whilst I don't like some parts(and scan Teletext when they are on), on the whole, I find it good entertainment. Even better is to digitally record it and fast forward the bits I don't like.
SWMBO and daughter, whilst not enthusiastic, tolerate the programme.
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Think you mean Chris Goffey not Mike Goff, I liked that era too, but also like this era!
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itsss realllly interesssting how they've scallllloped the flange widget on the left ventrilic valve asssssembly giving annnnn additional 0.3hp/l and a cleeeeeaner burn.... drone....
or
Blummin frip, that Porsche goes like hot wotsits off a greased sheet!
I'll go for the latter every time. If I want technical knowledge I go to uni and get a degree in mechanical engineering.
$$
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Oh dear, going to be a lot of unhappy forum French car owners...
Thought Trevor Eve was terrific - along with the Ascari.
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Has anyone found the link for the survey results...even the simple guide of Hammond and I cannot find it on google!!
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The closest I got to the survey was this link here. Changed days indeed, 3 Skodas in the top 10
www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/survey/
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Try this
www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2005/11/s...l
They seem to be having downtime issues at the moment however. Perhaps the French are trying to bombard the site.
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The closest I got to the survey was this link here. Changed days indeed, 3 Skodas in the top 10 www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/survey/
>>
www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2005/11/s...l
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After years of deciding I didn't like it, I have come to understand it as entertainment and found tonight's programme excellent entertainment and very enjoyable.
I'd still have the Aston though! When you are spending that amount of money, you have access to all sorts of cars. The BMW is ugly and footballers wives (lots in South Manchester) and the Porsche too common, although an excellent car. The Aston has a certain aloofness yet is still not snobby. It's also the most beautiful. Where can you go with 360bhp let alone 500.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Hooray - Subaru Forester in top ten!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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>>Forester in top ten!!!!!
But what's just above it?! Bit worried with all the French stuff at the bottom though, doesn't bode well for the C4...
--Lee .. SERENITY NOW
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The top ten (for those too tight to buy the mag):
1. Honda S2000
2. Lexus IS
3. Lexus RX
4. Skoda Superb
5. Skoda Octavia
6. Honda Jazz
7. Honda Accord
8. Suburu Legacy
9. Skoda Fabia
10.Suburu Forester
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It must be said that was a highly entertaining hour of television with some genuine comedy moments mixed with shear bravery of the Stig.
Proves the 911 is THE sports car icon.
Top stuff!
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I like the attitude of the IOM road folk - closing the mountain road for the stig to do his timed runs.
And look at that - 140mph on public roads and there weren't heaps of dead bodies all over the place as some would have you believe.
Martin
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I can get to the survey page - but can only find information on the top 10 and bottom 10. I expect the Mondeo and Focus will have come in at 11 and 12 seeing as they weren't in the top 10, but do I have to buy the magazine to find out - or is there another button that I missed?
Cheers
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Focus No 81
Mondeo No 79
Vectra (old model) 101
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Thanks. I know the fine attributes of the Mondeo have been discussed to death on here, but I always had a job reconciling this with HJ's (C by C b'down) list of 'what's bad' etc - which is as long as yer arm. Perhaps the survey reflects this better, and we Mondeo men have been deluding ourselves all along.
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>>deluding ourselves all along.>>
..and some of the VW Group doubters in view of the usual Skoda placings?
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Perhaps surprisingly, I agree entirely with the perennially impecunious one.
However, I do get a bit concerned when the boundaries become between the technical and the superficial are blurred. When entertainment programs and magazines try to do technical, they almost invariably get the detail wrong - although, in their defence, nowhere near as wrong as an academic type trying to be too cool!!
So, IMO, for prime time telly, there should be no attempt to be technical, and during the presentation of technical information *no* attempt should be made to dumb down.
Number_Cruncher
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Perhaps surprisingly, I agree entirely with the perennially impecunious one. However, I do get a bit concerned when the boundaries become between the technical and the superficial are blurred. When entertainment programs and magazines try to do technical, they almost invariably get the detail wrong - although, in their defence, nowhere near as wrong as an academic type trying to be too cool!! So, IMO, for prime time telly, there should be no attempt to be technical, and during the presentation of technical information *no* attempt should be made to dumb down. Number_Cruncher
Watched a German motoring programme a couple of weeks ago on ARD (main channel) and it was pretty technical - torque curves on the screen etc. I guess we Brits are a bit too thick for that sort of thing so its a choice between Clarkson's pregnant pauses and Mike Brewer going 'whoo-hoo'. Wouldn't mind so much if everything else wasn't dumbed down too - that's why none of the young lads these days know anything useful about cars. Go into a main dealer and there's one chap who knows what he's doing and 4-5 learners who work on your car at £70 an hour and need showing where the oil filter is.
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Go into a main dealer and there's one chap who knows what he's doing and 4-5 learners who work on your car at £70 an hour and need showing where the oil filter is.
Yes, that's an all too accurate view. In the 15 years since I left the workshop, I have kept in touch with some of my ex colleagues. They tell me that during that time, they have had only one apprentice who showed any real promise of being good enough technically to do unsupervised work on customers cars beyond normal servicing. Unfortunately, she left the trade because she felt that she wasn't strong enough to do the manual side of the work, or fast enough to earn enough bonus.
I suppose that young lads are always going to choose to read Street Machine, or Max Power instead of reading Heisler, Hillier & Pittuck, and other wonderful publications that kept me quiet while I was an apprentice.
Aprilia, I note from your profile that you have written some technical books. How did you deal with the question of presenting technical information to a wide audience?
Number_Cruncher
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thanks Martin123
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looking at the survey results it seems yet again the company cars that do well above average miles are middle or worse and the cars you would expect to do 5K a year at the most on average near the top.
When will we get a survey that is equal in terms of age and mileage?? You can buy the most unreliable car in the world, do 3000 miles a year for 3 years and have less problems than mondeo man doing 10 times that mileage or more!
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That's a good point. I don't suppose many Honda S2000s get driven down farm tracks like my old Mondy estate, and most Skodas seem to be driven gently by ol' boys wearing hats.
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No comments about the Liana shedding a front wheel *again*?
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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Having just watched the recording I made earlier; right at the start Jezza said this was a new series, not another 'best of top gear' to fill in the gaps between snooker and tennis. Then a montage was shown on what's coming up over the next 6 weeks.
Looked to me like another race to whereever in a car driven by Jezza whilst the other 2 use alternate transport; also a race with clapped out bangers; and another jaunt around the Isle of Man in some supercars, with a lenghty discussion in the pub afterwards.
Now I'm sure Jezza said right at the start that it was a new series - looks to me another repeat of what went on in previous series.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it as far as entertainment goes, but how long can you keep plugging similar stuff over and over again?
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No comments about the Liana shedding a front wheel *again*?
Where does the Liana come in the survey as that's twice now it's lost a wheel?
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I think it is all about expectations.
Skodas and VWs should really be rated similarly now days how there are still people who have a poor impression of the Skoda brand, buy a Skoda on VFM and are mightily impressed, likewise there are people who buy basically the same car with a VW badge, have much higher expectations and are relatively disapointed.
This is a factor elsewhere, i.e. it is possible that the Signum did a lot better that the Vectra for similar reasons, perhaps execs stepping out of an Audi or BMW into a Signum would not have high expectations therefore it is likely that their expectations would be exceeded.
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I think it is all about expectations.
Quite.
This is why Mercedes has been consistently slaughtered by these surveys in recent years.
People pay a substantial premium to own a Benz, and expect to get what they pay for. Unless they are car anoraks, they won't be aware that products such as the M class are a travesty of the 3-pointed star, and are not even German.
When their P&J turns out to have numerous quality and reliability 'issues' which the dealer in his plate-glass palace doesn't care about and can't fix, owners are inevitably angry, and will take their revenge in these surveys.
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>>and most Skodas seem to be driven gently by ol' boys wearing hats.>>
So what about all those Skoda Octavia taxis then....?
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When will we get a survey that is equal in terms of age and mileage?? You can buy the most unreliable car in the world, do 3000 miles a year for 3 years and have less problems than mondeo man doing 10 times that mileage or more!
A German survey was done on this basis about two years ago (by the TUV IIRC) and the Focus came out on top.
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I have said it before and I say again utter rubbish as is 5th Gear these days.
Oh and I am not an old "kill joy" man -46 actually!
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>>and most Skodas seem to be driven gently by ol' boys wearing hats.>>
Fifth Gear does have V B-H...:-)
Even the great Shoemaker gave up 10 minutes of his precious time.....
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I agree with Aprilla and havig lived for many years in Germany and still visit there regular on business the German tv programmes are 100% better and informative and more relevant to the main viewers = common sense not sensless rubbish.
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Not sure about the complaints regarding survey results - they're not just based on reliability :
Build quality (22%)
Craftsmanship (22%)
Driving experience (19%)
Ownership costs (17%)
Customer care (20%)
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>>Even the great Shoemaker gave up 10 minutes of his precious time
He was the picture of smugness throughout though!
I'm more into Used Car Roadshow on Bravo with Penny!!
--Lee .. sorry, the card says Moops.
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>>I'm more into Used Car Roadshow on Bravo with Penny!!>>
It's also on Men and Motors - saw it this afternoon.
Penny, IIRC, used to be a pretty useful rally driver before starting her TV career a few years back.
However, she seems merely to play a somewhat embarrassed straight man (woman) to Jason (aka the lookalike of the screeching radio DJ/soccer commentator bloke Coleman or something on those lines).
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When will we get a survey that is equal in terms of age and mileage?? You can buy the most unreliable car in the world, do 3000 miles a year for 3 years and have less problems than mondeo man doing 10 times that mileage or more!
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www.which.co.uk
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That's a laugh. I was in the dentist's waiting room the other day and had a look at the 2004 Which report that was lying there amongst the other literary dross. Countless subjective comments made by the Which reporters with no data to back them up and no details of the sample size, miles driven or other empirical data needed to make a reasoned decision. I got the impression that all the editorial was prepared by the same kind of non-driving faceless toad that draws up local transport policy.
$$
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That's a laugh. I was in the dentist's waiting room the other day and had a look at the 2004 Which report
Yes but this year they did a reliability report based purely on readers responses.
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surely that means its on the same basis as Top Gears and any other JD Power survey?
Personally i take most surveys with a pinch of salt. Everyone and their car is individual and ones own experiences tend to vary and so its a little naive to follow the croud based on effectively hearsay.
I have an Alfa 156 and am chuffed to bits. But according to any survey my car should have broken down numerous times and in doing so leaving me deeply unsatisfied. Hence my reasoning.
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Highspot - the BMW/Porsche/Aston shoot out.
Lowspot - Celebrity thing.
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Highspot - the BMW/Porsche/Aston shoot out. Lowspot - Celebrity thing.
I would have said the exact opposite.
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Isnt it about time Suzuki recalled the Liana. They seem to keep losing wheels...
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>>They seem to keep losing wheels.>>
Yes, but in cirumstances you are highly unlikely to encounter in real life conditions.
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>> Highspot - the BMW/Porsche/Aston shoot out. >> Lowspot - Celebrity thing. I would have said the exact opposite.
Totally agree.
Fail to see the relevance of a racing driver hurtling through a thunderstorm on closed roads and going faster in those conditions in a car with brakes that are a £5,000 extra.(the standard car has brakes as well you understand)
Rolls Royce never released the power output of their cars, merely saying it was 'adequate'. All of those cars had 'adequate' performance.
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That's a laugh............
.
and no details of the sample size,
>
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Page 14 states 34,227 cars - is that sample big enough for you?
As for the rest of your comments "countless subjective remarks" unless you can be a little more objective yourself and perhaps quote 30 or 40 of the "countless" remarks, it is hard to respond in an objective way........................
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I found the Survey Results interesting. Remarkably similar to the last lot of results from JDPower, AutoExpress etc - though there are always some odd anomalies. When these things come out, one of the things I always do is look for the top scoring French cars. This time it was ...
First: Citroen Berlingo (90th place)
Second: Citroen Picasso (108th)
Third: Peugeot Partner (121st)
(Can't quite account for that. Why would Berlingo owners be so much more satisfied. I always thought the two were pretty well identical, except for the size of the discounts :-)
And while the French manufacturers can't have been happy, I suspect that the really unhappy people will be Mercedes Benz.
One thing I noted was how badly the Ford Fusion and the C-Max did. What was interesting about this is that both cars were in the bottom 10 in this year's WHICH reliabilty survey.
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Saw the repeat last night - usual fodder, but entertaining. The IOM test was interesting, but I wouldn't put the 911 in the same category as the other two - seems this car is pushed at every opportunity! Good to see BMW still putting the wipers on the wrong way round for RHD models, even on a car costing £80,000.
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>> That's a laugh............ . and no details of the sample size, > >> Page 14 states 34,227 cars - is that sample big enough for you? As for the rest of your comments "countless subjective remarks" unless you can be a little more objective yourself and perhaps quote 30 or 40 of the "countless" remarks, it is hard to respond in an objective way........................
Sure, I'll just pop back to the dentist and spend half an hour or so transcribing it. Overall sample is meaningless. Just how many Saab 9-3s did they survey in order to proclaim "these cars break down all the time"?
Everyone harps on that Which (The Consumer Association) have no axe to grind. Well pass the horlicks on a shovel, they have to sell their rag to people to justify their existence. If you want to live life in several shades of beige, purchase every one of their best buys to equip your house and provide your transport. I'll pass, thanks.
$$
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Just how many Saab 9-3s did they survey in order to proclaim "these cars break down all the time"? Everyone harps on that Which (The Consumer Association) have no axe to grind. Well pass the horlicks on a shovel, they have to sell their rag to people to justify their existence. If you want to live life in several shades of beige, purchase every one of their best buys to equip your house and provide your transport. I'll pass, thanks. $$
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I'm afraid your memory is playing tricks on you.
Nowhere does Which? say 'Saab 9-3s break down all the time'
The summary for the new 9-3 (this is the 2004 car guide that we are talking about) says 'The 9-3 is comfortable and enjoyable to drive and among the leaders in its class for safety and security. Running costs are high, but not quite as bad as the old 9-3's'.
The summary for the old 9-3 (March 98 to May 02) says 'Driving pleasure and build quality are the main attractions here. Generally, people are pleased with this Saab, though they do complain about visibility and space in the rear'
What's wrong with that. No mention of 'breaking down all the time'.
Next...
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