If there's so much torque, why is there a 6 speed gearbox?
Wouldn't 5 be more than enough?
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I thought 6 was just an economy gear.
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Why not space 5 gears better?
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I've no idea. My mate's Dad just said "6 is an economy gear" when I was in the car.
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Yeah well, that's pretty much always true. 6th in my Coupe is an economy gear. Of course, that's a relative term, a lot of people might not call it very economical.
Mind you, a whole tank of cruising at over 100mph and getting 32+mpg is pretty good as far as I'm concerned.
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It must be nice not having to go to the petrol station every day.
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When I was drivign through Europe, I literally did have to go to the petrol station once a day I think.
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Might be a lot of torque, but could be across a narrow rev-band. (Only a guess by the way, I don't know whether this is true of the Mundano)
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If there's so much torque, why is there a 6 speed gearbox? Wouldn't 5 be more than enough?
Partly marketing and partly to bring it (in hatch and saloon form) one bracket lower in BiK terms.
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How does that work then? Something to do with emissions?
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My 2002 TDCi 130 is 5 speed, 5th is 31mph/1000 rpm, on the 6 speed it is 35/1000, this actually makes it slightly less flexible in top though improves extra urban economy marginally.
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Partly marketing and partly to bring it (in hatch and saloon form) one bracket lower in BiK terms.
Thanks, that sounds about right.
BiK, emissions, drive-by noise might be the reason for having a high top gear, marketing is probably the reason for it being 6th, not 5th
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So realistically the best one to get would be the 5 speed?
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I prefer the 6 speed, I think it`cruises a bit more quietly and easily than the 5 cog.
Blue
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I have a Golf with the new VAG 2.0 tdi. This also has a 6 speed box and on paper more torque than the 130 tdci. I do find the rev range very narrow and need to change up quickly but 6th is very lazy (33mph per 1000rpm) and is also surprisingly punchy!
It too suffers from some wind noise, some owners have said this is because of door seal faults, while I suspect it may just be the steep rake of the windscreen and perhaps the shape of the wing mirrors!
The michelin energy tyrea are definately noisy though..shame they will last so long!
Mark
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I have a Golf with the new VAG 2.0 tdi. This also has a 6 speed box and on paper more torque than the 130 tdci. I do find the rev range very narrow and need to change up quickly but 6th is very lazy (33mph per 1000rpm) and is also surprisingly punchy!
No, the Mondeo 130 is more torquey than the VW 2.0 TDi, the TDi produces a maximum of 320nm torque where as the TDCi produces 330nm static and a 350nm peak via Ford's transient overboost.
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>>Ford's transient overboost.
The what now?
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fair enough, I must have got my PS/BHP figures mixed up with my torque nm!!
transient overboost indeed!
Still rather have the VAG engine though!
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Still rather have the VAG engine though!
The VAG 2.0 TDi is a bit on and off where the TDCi has a broader spread of torque, also while the 2.0 TDi is more refined than the 1.9 and is OK on the move it is much noiser at idle that the TDCi and idles with a typical diesel urgency where as the TDCi is more petrol like at idle, as are the Renault DCi's incidentally.
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350nm peak torque
That's 260 lb.ft for those still working in old money. Impressive!
I'd buy any car with a 'transient overboost' though. Can you activate it with a red button which has a cover over it?
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No but the red i on TDCi lights up when activated.
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When SWMBO said I should get transient overboost, I thought she meant for me! Phew - it was the Mondeo she was talking about - wasn't it!!
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I too have been introduced to the quality of current Fords. Having been put off the things by a horrid Escort 1.8 TD, recently I had a hire Focus (new shape). Whilst I prefer the shape of the old model Focus, I was impressed by how nicely it drove and the overall quality.
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There really isn't much excuse for a lot of wind noise at fairly modest speeds, in a modern car.
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There is no way on earth that any car could live up to the hype generated on here. Its going to have to be pfd good to convince me and overcome its bagge.
The wind noise does not sound good, the goona was a superb relaxed mmm (motorway mile muncher)
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"the TDCi is a great diesel engine - arguably one of the best"
It is pleasing to know that the Mondeo has at last caught up with the Xantia of 1998 vintage - I wonder why??
I think I had better classify that as a hypothetical question and go and have my tea and watch telly for the rest of the evening to avoid the flak!!
Phil
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"the TDCi is a great diesel engine - arguably one of the best" It is pleasing to know that the Mondeo has at last caught up with the Xantia of 1998 vintage - I wonder why??
Thats somewhat misleading - a Xantia of 1998 vintage is still going to be powered by an XUTD engine and not an HDi becuase the HDi didn't come in the Xantia until 1999, just TWO years before the TDCi of the Mondeo was introduced.
It's no secret the pre TDCi Ford diesels are utter, utter garbage - I was (and still am) a huge fan of diesels and prefer them to petrol cars generally, my Xantia TD was excellent, but the woefulness of the 1.8TD turned me to petrol.
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Either I am a year out or the XUTD was better than the TDCi!!
Phil
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Either I am a year out or the XUTD was better than the TDCi!!
Errr, it wasn't. Take that from an XUTD fan and former owner.
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No but the red i on TDCi lights up when activated.
And it doesn't half use up the di-lithium crystals
;-)
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I have a Golf with the new VAG 2.0 tdi. This also has a 6 speed box and on paper more torque than the 130 tdci. I do find the rev range very narrow and need to change up quickly but 6th is very lazy (33mph per 1000rpm) and is also surprisingly punchy! It too suffers from some wind noise, some owners have said this is because of door seal faults, while I suspect it may just be the steep rake of the windscreen and perhaps the shape of the wing mirrors! The michelin energy tyrea are definately noisy though..shame they will last so long! Mark
I don't see the logic of a steeply raked windscreen producing a lot of wind noise. Isn't the purpose of steep raking to reduce drag and therefore decrease wind noise?
As far as the tyre noise is concerned, it isn't just the tyre design that contributes to noise transmission into the car, the car design is an important factor too. I have never found Michelin Energy tyres to be particularly noisy.
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I think a lot of people are under the mis-conception that because diesels have loads of torque they will never have to change gear. This is not entirely true because unfortunately turbo diesels have a narrow power-band causing the engine to be less 'flexible' than the usual petrol engine. This is why big trucks have many gears so that their driver can keep their huge diesel in its peak efficiency band when negotiating hills etc.
However back to topic, I am a bit of a badge snob, as I drivve an Audi (diesel), however for the record, I think the Mondeo TDCi is a great car and those who buy them second-hand have more sense than money.
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I have a Golf with the new VAG 2.0 tdi. This also has a 6 speed box and on paper more torque than the 130 tdci. I do find the rev range very narrow and need to change up quickly but 6th is very lazy (33mph per 1000rpm) and is also surprisingly punchy!
That's what swung me towards the DSG - driving gently it changes gear at just 1,800-2,000 rpm - doing that in the manual resulted in very regular gear changes!
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>> If there's so much torque, why is there a 6 speed >> gearbox? >> >> Wouldn't 5 be more than enough? >> Partly marketing and partly to bring it (in hatch and saloon form) one bracket lower in BiK terms.
I noticed these figures on HJ's test of the new MX5
2.0 160PS petrol 5-speed manual: 0-60 7.6 seconds; top speed 130mph; combined mpg 36.7; CO2 emissions 183g/km (VED Band F Petrol); EU4; Insurance Group 13E
2.0 160PS petrol 6-speed manual: 0-60 7.6 seconds; top speed 130mph; combined mpg 34.5; CO2 emissions 193g/km (VED Band F Petrol); EU4; Insurance Group 13E
I will wait for the 7 speed version I think!
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So what is the advantage of a 6 speed box on an MX5?
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>>Mondeo means you've got more sense than money; BMW (Merc, SUV, etc) means you've got more money than sense. Given that my "sense" is a constant, I would prefer the second situation. The implication being that perhaps we have the same amount of sense, but one of us has got a load of money as well.
Not really, because I reckon many (the majority) of new BMW's and Mercs are bought with company money. Many others are leased by small business people like myself. The monthly difference between leasing say, a Passat and a C-class is not that great. I had a friend who was a BMW salesman and he told me that relatively few went to private buyers.
A lot of folks are also deperate to impress. I have sold quite a few used Mercs over the years and can tell you that there's a lot of people who own one but can't really afford it. Prestige car on the drive but nothing in the 'fridge.
I think the Mondeo is a very good car. I also think it is boring. You may not, that's the delight of choice.
The word 'boring' is used on here quite a lot. Generally in connection with Japanese cars or anything that is 'popular' - I still don't really know what it means. My teenage daughter often uses the word 'boring' in a similar way - a kind of vague, derogatory comment. For the life of me I can't see why a Mondeo would be "boring" - not bad looking, excellent ride and handling. I suspect its 'crime' is that there are lots about and it has a Ford badge on it.
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I suspect its'crime' is that there are lots about and it has a Ford badge on it.
Isn't it the case that the BMW 3 Series has outsold Mondeo for a while now, or is that an urban myth?
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A mondeo ( I dont like them ) inspires no passion or excitement
A BMW ( I dont like them ) inspires passion or excitment (either for or against - people get excited or agitated about them)
Ergo A Mondeo is boring.
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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A mondeo ( I dont like them ) inspires no passion or excitement
Try driving one.
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have - it dont
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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What does then for say £15k new, 50mpg, five seats and a big boot, Mondeo does Tescos, 2000 mile family hols loaded to the gun'lls, 400 mile/day business trips and take it down some intersting roads and it still makes you smile at the weekend.
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Dont get me wrong, its a good car. Its fabulous value for money, it handles really well, it rides well, it goes like stink, it does everything you could ever want from a car and then some.
Its also utterly devoid of any style character or class. Its ruthlessly efficient, in a Bosch fridge kind of way.
A fridge is by most counts boring.
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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Its also utterly devoid of any style character or class. Its ruthlessly efficient, in a Bosch fridge kind of way.
Class is interesting, I am a Renault fan (got a Clio) though I would say a Ford is classier than a Renault and a Mondeo classier than a Laguna, what Renault have though is character and charm. Likewise a Mondeo out classes many of its contempories, Primera, 407, C5, Vectra etc losing out only really to the 3 Series/ X-Type execs.
My analogy with a Bosch fridge would be more Audi, antiseptic in character.
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No an Audi is flawed in many areas, the very fact its flawed provides it with some interest or character. It has a personality.
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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No an Audi is flawed in many areas, the very fact its flawed provides it with some interest or character. It has a personality. --
I did not say am Audi is not flawed, though I would not say they are strong on personality! Next you will say an Almera has got personality because it is flawed.
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The Laguna has character. It's French. They all have character. Even our 405 had character in a funny way. It was charming when bits fell off.
All German cars have character - that of menace.
Fords don't have character any more - the new Focus has seen to that. They're just..competent.
For what it's worth, I know exactly what RF's driving at. The Mondeo is a very good car but there are others with more character. I think if the Mondeo had a tendency to flip over, or combust without notice (the car not the engine), it would have more character.
The Almera will never have personality. I know Aprillia loves them and they are very well built, soild cars. It will never have character though - not because it's Jap, because it looks like it does.
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> Next you will say an Almera has got personality
Whats an Almera?
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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> Next you will say an Almera has got personality Whats an Almera?
Come to mention it, I er, I can't remember!
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I think you lot are making this up as you go along.
In my younger days I was under cars 9-10 hours a day for six days a week. We didn't bother much about 'character'. There were just cars that went well and were straightforward to fix and then there were the ones were your heart sank because they were always a heap of junk (these were the ones with 'character' because you had to spray the plug leads with 'Dampstart', pull the choke out exactly 9/16" and prod the throttle four times to get the thing to start in the morning). I'll leave you to think of some brand names.
Funny thing is, I remember when BMW's started getting popular in the early 1980's - people said they were good cars 'but had no character'. Now we seem to think that they do have character? Not sure about the BMW's and 'passion, excitement' bit either - in fact I would have thought that it was the BMW was the automotive equivalent of the Bosch dishwasher. Now show me a Facel Vega or AC and I'll talk about character. Stick me in the passenger seat of a Mondeo or a BMW on a dark night and I won't know which I'm in.
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Class is interesting, I am a Renault fan (got a Clio) though I would say a Ford is classier than a Renault and a Mondeo classier than a Laguna, what Renault have though is character and charm. Likewise a Mondeo out classes many of its contempories, Primera, 407, C5, Vectra etc losing out only really to the 3 Series/ X-Type execs.
Yes class is very interesting, especially when you come across people, as I have in the past, who thought that an Escort had more class than a Peugeot 306 and a Fiesta more class than a 205. I think the Ford image is deeply engrained in the British pysche. It has to be for so many people to buy Escorts and Fiestas when they were not great cars.
I recall being told by a chap I once knew, that they had sold his wife's 205 Junior, because its performance was poor, and that the Fiesta XR2 they had bought to replace it was a much better car. Now what exactly did they expect of a 205 Junior (1 litre engine, I think)?
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I think the Ford image is deeply engrained in the British pysche. It has to be for so many people to buy Escorts and Fiestas when they were not great cars.
Couldn't put that better myself, and I entirely agree. Probably because people look with their rose tinted glasses to a time when ford built heavily in the uk. Because dads and grandfathers always bought them for that reason, the current generation buy them, brainwashed with the idea that Ford = best.
Yeah, the Mondeo is a competent car, but so is a few other cars on the market. I've been in one (but not driven), my dads driven a couple, and although not entirely unimpressed, failed to see why everyone wet themselves with excitement over it.
If we all drove the same thing, and thought the same thoughts, the world would be a boring place.
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Yeah, the Mondeo is a competent car, but so is a few other cars on the market. I've been in one (but not driven), my dads driven a couple, and although not entirely unimpressed, failed to see why everyone wet themselves with excitement over it.
My feelings exactly after I took one for a test drive, before we bought our C5. Nice car, certainly, but far superior to the C5, I don't think so.
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