Ok guys. Ta.
My point was indeed that I wouldn't give the business to a trader that says that on eBay - UNLESS they are legally able to say that, because eBay is an auction. It would seem from the above eBay is NOT an auction, so they cannot legally say that. Therefore I won't give them my busibess as they must know this but are trying it on.
The balance of opinion here seems to be there is no wiggle room. They MUST offer at least the S.O.G. six months during which THEY have to prove there wasn't a fault at sale time, not the other way around, as all traders must - as I understand it.
Even forecourt dealers sometimes omit to mention that six months.
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What about motor traders who advertise in Autotrader and the like who are selling cars on what they call "trade terms"?
I understand what they mean - about the same rights as private sale, ie. caveat emptor, but can a trader actually offer this?
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Sale on trade terms. Err, an area that is getting greyer. The courts aren't mad keen on prosecuting traders for selling ancient vehicles for not very much money.
AFAIK:
Car sold by a trader to private individual: all usual terms of sale designed to protect the consumer apply.
Car sold by an individual to private individual: buyer beware (unless ad. is misleading). But it would have to be very misleading...
Car sold by a trader to private individual 'no guarantee' - probably all the usual terms of sale apply. Unfair Contract Terms Act probably negates that term of the contract.
Car sold by a trader 'on trade terms' - Getting greyer. If the trader is deliberately putting that term into his contract to attempt to avoid his responsibility, then he's probably on a loser. If the buyer holds himself out to be a trader, then buyer probably has to cope with those terms.
Rusty 1970 Cinquecento sold with 2 weeks' MOT to private buyer by trader for £50: well, the courts aren't stupid. He's not going to have to turn it into a refurbished Rolls Royce for you.
Unroadworthy car sold: the law has been broken.
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''Unroadworthy car sold: the law has been broken''
Surely not if you state that it's unroadworthy. I think the issue here is what the trader has stated. Where does a trader stand if he offers a part-ex on a trade basis, with an MOT but states quite clearly that he does not know if it is roadworthy or not and that you buy it on that basis? I would think that was fair. Caveat emptor and all that.
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''Unroadworthy car sold: the law has been broken'' Surely not if you state that it's unroadworthy. I think the issue here is what the trader has stated. Where does a trader stand if he offers a part-ex on a trade basis, with an MOT but states quite clearly that he does not know if it is roadworthy or not and that you buy it on that basis? I would think that was fair. Caveat emptor and all that.
No - a trader can't (legally) sell a car that's unroadworthy. I guess it might be possible to sell it as 'scrap', or for 'spares' but even that might be dodgy, and they'd probably fall foul of some waste disposal legislation then!
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My point was indeed that I wouldn't give the business to a trader that says that on eBay - UNLESS they are legally able to say that, because eBay is an auction. It would seem from the above eBay is NOT an auction, so they cannot legally say that. Therefore I won't give them my busibess as they must know this but are trying it on.
If you're so minded, you can complain to eBay about 'unfair' T's & C's in sellers descriptions. I believe eBay are pretty harsh about this - they don't like anything which damages people's confidence in using eBay.
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That's an interesting idea.
I can't decide whether that's good citizenship or meanmindedness at this moment. Probably the former in that it might prevent others not being aware of their rights, but on the other hand I'm not the world's policeman.
Shall cogitate.
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With respect to cars, Ebay is a shark pool. You have to accept that if you stick your arm in there it has a good chance of getting bitten off.
Ask youself this, why is a trader selling on ebay? why is it not on his lot?
Anyway, whats diffrent in buying a car from ebay than any other source, if you buy a car with giving it a good once over or a checkout by someone who knows, then you deserve to get both arms and your torso ripped to shreds by the sharks.
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With respect to cars, Ebay is a shark pool. You have to accept that if you stick your arm in there it has a good chance of getting bitten off.
You're right, unless the car is described as perfect then view it before bidding.
Ask youself this, why is a trader selling on ebay? why is it not on his lot?
It really depends on the car. If a car dealers stock is generally less than 7 years old more than £3k, then what else do you do with part exchanges?
Either auction them, which means paying to transport it to the auction, the fee for entering it into the auction and the commision or bung it on ebay as "sold as seen." Much lower cost, gets punters onto your car lot so free advertising too.
However if a dealer is selling a car on ebay that fits in with the rest of his stock then I'd expect him to offer the usual warrantee.
--
I read often, only post occasionally
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In fairness to some ebay traders the reason the cars are not on their lot is because they don't have one. Many of the established ebay traders work on ebay only and rely on low overheads and no showroom or lot. ebay is, in effect, their lot. Several traders appear to buy at auction and then sell on ebay relying on a small average margin and a high turnover (5-10 cars) a week. ebay cars typically sell for somewhere between trade and private advert book price which is where these traders make their profit.
Several larger dealers (including some large franchised ones) also sell off their older and higher mileage trade-ins via ebay rather than sending them straight to car auction on the basis that on average they will get £500 or so more per car.
The cars to be wary of on ebay are the private ones with bad descriptions and evasive sellers.
Taken as an overall average, I'm not convinced ebay is any more of a barepit in terms of bad cars than the used car market is overall. I'd be more inclined to trust an established ebay trader than a private classified in my local paper.
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And you always have the feedback to give some indication as well?
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"In fairness to some ebay traders the reason the cars are not on their lot is because they don't have one. Many of the established ebay traders work on ebay only"
Exactly. My point exactly. They are low rent, low morals, transient dealers. NO registered office, no tax, no trace. an ebay car dealer should be treated with the utmost caution. Count your fingers.
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I think that's perhaps a little harsh and over cynical, RF?
There are lots of motor traders on eBay who appear perfectly legit, and who are using it as an adjunct to their other business.
I'm not trying to an eBay apologist, although I have an interest in the thing. I sell books there and don't have a retail premises.
Mind you, I don't have to give a six month warranty in the event of page seven dropping out either I suppose.
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Ah - sorry RF - I see now you were replying to the point about those who only trade there. I withdraw my observation of cynicism.
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"I wouldn't give the business to a trader that says that on eBay "
dipstick - I think you have hit the nail on the head there - stick to that mantra!
Phil
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> Exactly. My point exactly. They are low rent, low morals,
> transient dealers. NO registered office, no tax, no trace. an > ebay car dealer should be treated with the utmost caution.
> Count your fingers.
I think that's a little harsh. Browsing through some of them appear to have sold over 2000 cars via ebay with almost universally good feedback.
There are certainly plenty of bad cars and bad sellers on ebay but there are loads of them in the used car business in general. I suppose the key thing is that if a trader looks less than A1 on ebay then to make sure you value the car and bid as appropriate. If you pay peanuts you can't expect the back-up of a major dealer - you pays your money and you takes your choice.
That said, some of the dealers ARE major franchised dealers selling off their PX's.
I sold a car a year or so ago on ebay. I got £1000 over the PX offer and the buyer got a car £1500-2000 below typical Autotrader prices. It was a quick simple sale and we were both happy. It can work sometimes.
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I've both bought and sold on e-bay. Got the wife's new shape Fiesta significantly under forecourt prices and the selling was the easiest transaction I've ever done.
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Would it be an idea for those who have boughts cars from ebay "dealers", and been happy with them, to tell us what their ebay sellers ids are?
Could be handy for any of us looking for cars to know what dealers are trustworthy?
MLC - who did you get yours from? Was it a dealer?
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Bought the Fiesta a year ago from thecarauctioncompany. Their listings are extremely detailed with multiple photos. I could sell the car today and not lose any money on it. It's been absolutely faultless, the chap was very nice and he even picked me up from the railway station. So, after a year I still feel I can recommend them.
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Bought the Fiesta a year ago from thecarauctioncompany. Their listings are extremely detailed with multiple photos. I could sell the car today and not lose any money on it. It's been absolutely faultless, the chap was very nice and he even picked me up from the railway station. So, after a year I still feel I can recommend them.
Hmm - he's listing a Zafira now that didn't have its first service 'till 25,000 miles, then 2000 miles later had a new engine. It was last serviced at 80,000 miles and it's now done 105,000.
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I just caught the end of a story, on local radio, of someone who bought a dud car on eBay. The seller became very evasive, and would not allow himself to be contacted. There may be a follow-up if the BBC man had any success. He even named the seller on air, which they are usually most reluctant to do.
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Vauxhalls have 20,000m service intervals. And the fact that you know shows he's not hiding anything. I don't have any connection with this guy, I only go off the service I received, which was excellent.
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Now that is a good honest add. Couple that with a trip to see the car involved, seems to me like good car ebaying.
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The basic rules for ebay car buying are the same as car buying in general. As long as the description is honest the buyer judges the price.
If, having "won" a car, you view it and the description is not correct then you are not under any obligation to go through with the purchase if it is mis-described. If, however, it is as described you are under an obligation and I do think people who then fail to complete should be left very negative feedback.
I sometimes do actually feel for some of the smaller traders as looking at some of the feedback there are clearly people who buy a car at trade price and then expect all the services and backup of a main franchised dealer.
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Now that is a good honest add. Couple that with a trip to see the car involved, seems to me like good car ebaying.
It certainly does appear honest and complete, but with all the hoo-hah on here about frequent oil changes etc, I'm not sure I'd be keen on a car that's done 105K and onlt had 3 services (the first one of which was apparently 5000 miles late - although somewhat negated by having the engine replaced!).
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My Omega has done nearly 100k miles without a "service" and is still giving good service. Oil & filter changed regularly, plugs at 70k, air filter occasionally, cambelts at each 40k.
I do most of the "service" items myself - checking seatbelt webbing, lights, operation of this and that, and if it isn't working I get it fixed... If anything else breaks, I also get that fixed (3 way valve, front bushes, exhaust, dash lights). I really don't need to pay £70 an hour to be told my exhaust is about to go - and I am a mechanical numpty.
Oh, btw, my service book shows a full service history for those of you that might want to buy it :-)
If you are judging a car's condition by it's service manual it might not tell the whole story...
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But surely the point is that he's not claiming it's got a full service history. He's described fully and honestly and leaves it to you to make your own mind up.
It's the people who mis-describe cars that are the problem
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