A consultation paper on the Use of Mechanically Propelled Vehicles on Rights of Way has hit the streets. The whole thing is here www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/mpvehicles/cons...f and here are the opening paras. (Thanks to my buddies at my other forum for highlighting this one)
As Rural Affairs Minister, I have been approached by many individuals and organisations who are deeply concerned about problems caused by the use of mechanically propelled vehicles on rights of way and in the wider countryside. I share these concerns, having seen for myself examples of damage to fragile tracks and other aspects of our natural and cultural heritage in various areas of the country.
There is considerable concern about behaviour that causes distress to others seeking quiet enjoyment of the countryside.
Because of this I have resolved to take a fresh look at the whole issue of the use of vehicles on rights of way and in the wider countryside and this paper sets out some proposals for dealing with the problems that can arise from that use. In doing so I am
seeking to achieve the right balance between the interests of the various organisations and individuals concerned and the interests of maintaining the tranquillity and conservation value of the countryside.
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"Greenlaning" is vandalism of the worst kind. Once a green lane has been churned up by vehicular misuse, unlike other forms of vandalism no amount of money can reinstate it to it's original condition.
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L\'escargot.
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Many greenlanes are only kept open* by the need for farmers to access remote areas. I wonder if our beloved leaders will take that into account?
Greenlaning when done responsibly, with an eye to ground and weather conditions, causes little damage. It's the yaa-hoos revving the nadgers of their wife's school-run Shogun with no training and no clue that cause the damage.
(* maintained/made wide enough rather than "open" in the wider sense)
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I think the key word in your post is "need". Greenlanes were established to serve a purpose, not leisure.
For the record I drive both an everyday car and a beat-up old SIII Landy for fun, but I consider greenlaning vandalism and whilst many greenlaners do take great care to minimise the damage they do, not all greenlaners take as much care and eejits on scramble bikes take their cue and then the real damage gets done.
Thank you for posting the link I will take time to make my contribution.
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My six pennys worth, living about 2 miles from the Ridgeway on the Berkshire Downs, and having walked two thirds (57 miles) of it...
The worst offenders are guys in their modded 4WDs - over-sized tyres etc. The wetter the conditions the more fun for them, it seems. Despite the fact it's called the Ridgeway, much of it is poorly drained, and that's where they have the worst impact. Some rutted sections are impassable unless in a 4WD, and I've seen them deliberately churning it up, over-revving to make the wheels spin and deepen the ruts.
Other parts are well-drained, and better than my drive - they don't bother with those. Most bikers I've seen are great, but there are exceptions. The impact of a trials/trail bike is far less then a vehicle, particularly if well ridden (remmember Sammy Miller anybody?)
That said, if you put enough horses through a badly-drained section often enough (daily rides from trekking centre, perhaps) you'll also creat a good deal of mud, but not perhaps as deep/rutted as from thoughtless 4WDers.
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Its vandalism. Ban them. Allow for those who *need* to use the lanes, of course.
But these idiots deliberately churning up the land, making a nuisance of themselves and spoiling it for everybody else need to have their toys taken away.
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Its vandalism. Ban them. Allow for those who *need* to use the lanes, of course. But these idiots deliberately churning up the land, making a nuisance of themselves and spoiling it for everybody else need to have their toys taken away.
What rubbish. Why should the minority ALWAYS spoil things for the majority of responsible people?
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What "majority of responsible people" ? 99% idiots IMO.
And by the way, in case you wondered, I drive a Landcruiser which does get dirty.
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Greenlaners are the minority (whether responsible or nutters) in comparison to the majority who use these lanes for peaceful recreation on foot or horseback. What is your point?
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Not sure if I was clear...
If the statement was that the majority of 4x4 greenlaners are responsible and it is their fun that the minority are spoiling, then I disagree. I believe that the vast majority of 4x4 greenlaners are the idiots.
If the statement was that the 4x4s are the minority spoiling it for the majority of greenlane users [horses, walkers, but not 4x4s] then I agree.
I'm not sure that's any clearer, but I know what I mean.
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I was replying to the same message as you!
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Local Yokel has hit on a point that seems to be brought up each time 'greenlaneing' is mentioned.
Horses, and the damage that they do. The most frequent complainers being walkers and off-road cyclists.
Conversely, it is horse riders that bemoan the damage done by vehicles...
Green lanes were designed for a purpose, one that has been usurped by motorized vehicles. It is foolish to say 'If I can get through, then it must be for me'. Deeply rutted sections are lethal for horses. Good horse riders will not negotiate a water filled rut or puddle if they can help it.
Nothing 'ruts' quite like a 4x4 and the ruts form in a narrow section on 8-foot wide track whereas all other unnecessary traffic can meander across the entire 8 feet and ultimately even-out the damage. I say unnecessary as tractors and the like are only really necessary.
There are plenty of centres that cater for 4x4s.
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Green lanes are in the most part ancient rights of way. Its history, and for once history that people can use and enjoy.
Like all ancient monuments they need to be protected. If this means banning a minority for the future enjoyment of the majority then so be it.
The "green laning 4x4 brigade" are well catered for at specialised off roading centres that are springing up, where frankly they will find much more challenging and hence enjoyable tracks and obstacles.
I dont like draconian measures like banning activities, but this one I feel is justified.
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>>The "green laning 4x4 brigade" are well catered for at specialised off roading centres that are springing up, where frankly they will find much more challenging and hence enjoyable tracks and obstacles.<<
Horses are also well catered for with fields, but we still have to put up with them in the road!
Walkers are also well catered for with pavements.
Why do we have to have this 'Ban everything' attitude when the minority misbehave?
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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Smokie,
I've opened the document you link to and it says the deadline for receipt of comments was March 2004.
Is there another consultation going on?
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As a cyclist and a horse rider, the damage done by horses is nothing compared to that done by a 4x4.
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I'm a bit of a poacher turned gamekeeper here. I used to do a bit of greenlaning in my old Land Rover as well as some trialling.
I only did gentle greenlaning in summer. I also do a lot of walking and cycling - I belong to the Ramblers and Sustrans.
My best advice to greenlaners is to buy a good pair of walking boots and / or a mountain bike. It's healthier, cheaper, more enjoyable and less damaging. You don't need to worry about getting stuck or to spend an hour or more hosing mud off your vehicle in your driveway!
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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Hmm well spotted Nsar. I will admit to not having read it thoroughly, as I said I just collected it from my other forum where it has been posted as though it were a current issue. There's probably a response document somewhere...
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other forum where it has been posted as though it were a current issue.
Thought this sounded familiar. It was discussed here last year:-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=20463
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I think a preliminary report has already been published.
From memory, it found that overall green lane use by 4X4's was extremely low. Consequently, damage from them was also extremely low. Most damage came from farm and forestry vehicles, and this couldn't be avoided by any change in status. It also said that most other users (walkers/cyclists/equestrians) had an extremely small chance of encountering 'leisure' 4X4's, and of those that had, most had no complaint. It also had something about disabled users having a right to access, and this can't always be done by foot etc. There was something along the lines of proportion of green lanes to footpaths, which is extremely low.
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Although I am a motorcyclist my main issue in this regard is the noise from screaming two strokes ridden by kids up and down one or two lanes than run across farm land near our home, yes horses do as much damage though they make far less noise.
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I'm more concerned about the chavs that blight my neighbourhood riding mini motorbikes on the pavement and road illegally.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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I think anyone not resembling me should be banned.
After all, it's just not necessary.
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Can I come and off-road across your garden please, it's just that all the green lanes near me are choked?
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Can I come and off-road across your garden please, it's just that all the green lanes near me are choked?
Of course. So long as I can take a similarly liberal attitude to ownership and use of shotguns. ;-)
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Ther are a damn site more footpaths and bridleways compared to proper Rights Of Ways, Roads Used as Public Paths and Byways Used for All Traffic,ROWS RUPPs and BOATS.
There is a campaign called Tread Lightly, which uses all the above in a cautious manner,making sure that there is no cause for complaint.
I live in deepest Hampshire and have used some ROWs all my driving life , in fact some can be reclassified as footpaths if there is proven non usage, so it is my interest to occasionally use them.
Now some of them have temporary bans on ,which is fine as long as they are just that.
In the past there has been complaints about the usage of 4by4s using ROWs and the accuser has pointed out the damage, but then it was also pointed out that the ruts were made by tractors.
Farmers use these lanes all the year round, rain or dry, sometimes they are the only access to fields, so they wil suffer damage.
One thing I cannot ignore is that 20 odd years ago there was never any problem but now there has been an influx of townies, there is constant trouble.
I used to milk cows and one town couple bought a house near the farm, we had complaint ranging from, do you have to start work so early?, do you have to work weekends and bank holidays?, do the cows have to moo so loudly?
One Monday morning the boss told me that some weekenders had rung and compained that their kids could see the ram tupping (impregnating) the ewes and could he move them, just to keep the peace he moved them, a few hours later he got a call saying "if i stand on my kitchen stool i can still see them".
I want to use rights of ways and will do until stopped, if you do not like my usage of them try a footpath, i think you will find there are quite a lot of them.
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There are certainly some hooligans but it is interesting if there is some official evidence now that farmers cause much of the damage to green lanes. In a previous farming-related capacity I visited the Ridgeway when the first temporary winter ban on vehicular traffic was being introduced to look at the background to the issue for a farming magazine article. A local landowner (and there is a difference between a landowner and a farmer) took me round from the A34 westwards towards the White Horse and agreed that in his opinion the very worst ruts were caused by his neighbours gaining access to their furthest-flung fields by the quickest routes possible via the tarmac road then the Ridgeway rather than through their cropped fields. While we were there on a damp day, a large 4WD tractor with six-furrow reversible plough turned up on the feeder road from the nearest village and set off slipping and sliding through the ruts already present.
To my offroading shame I still have pictures of me and (whisper it) a Lada Niva next to some kind of obelisk along the Ridgeway.
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