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I had an interesting discussion with someone who has not driven in this country for around 10 years. He now drives in London and in some of the home counties. He tells me that (to him) is is very noticeable that drivers now, generally, are observing speed limits much more that previously and he concludes that this is probably due to the great increase in the numbers of speed cameras etc. Also, he feels that traffic flow in what were, previously, congested locations, is much better than 10 years ago. Just one opinion of course but it does give food for theought
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John, irrespective of whether he's right or wrong, it makes a change to hear something positive and slightly optomistic regarding speed and speed cameras on this site. The opposite point of view prevails 90 percent of the time from what I can see.
Something tells me not everyone will see it that way! (Dons protective headwear and hides behind monitor).
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Speed cameras were introduced in 1991. 307,000 accidents.
By year 2000 with at least 4300 cameras and traffic calming all over the place, 320,000 accidents.
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Alwyn,
We all know the saying about statistics, to give a fairer comparison you would also have to compare the increase in the number of vehicles and the annual number of vehicle miles travelled. I'm not a fan of speed cameras because so many are simply used as an income generator, however there must be thousands of motorists who are either so inobservant that they miss the warning signs or the camera itself and are therefore not aware enough of their surroundings, or are aren't bothered about the fines and points.
Perhaps if fixed manned cameras were sited alongside motorways and used to prosecute tailgaters, last minute lane changers, people using phones etc. we would become more accepting of the unmanned speed ones.
Food for thought?
Rob
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Yep, Simply driving a little above a poorly set limit in safe circumstances is....quite safe.
But as you say, cameras don't see idiots driving a foot off the bumper in front and all the other truly dangerous things that happen every day.
A bobby once told me the only productive site for a speed trap is where the speed is safe.
Chief Constable Brunstrom says he wants to see 3 million speeding tickets issued every year. So he obviously does not want folks to obey the limits, just koff up the cash.
He seems unable to see the difference between breaking a speed limit and driving excessively fast for the conditions.
29 mph past a school bus off-loading kids? Mad but legal.
65 mph on a foggy motorway? Mad but legal.
More police using their discretion is the answer; not roadside motorist-milking machines.
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actually the answer is many fold
i) bring back cycle profeciancy training to the schools
ii) teach the kids road safety much more thoroughly, the art of being a good pedestrian
iii) design the road system much better, a new road you have never driven should be intuative and easily undestood with minimal important signage
iv) widen the roads, dont thin them, allow more room for the inevitable error
v) police the traffic, based on driver education, clamping down on outrageous dangerous drivers 1st, encourgage much greater breaking distance
vi) and train the traffic police much better, the standard and length of training some of the people driving a traffic car/bike is at its lowest for years
vii)- and dont build resentment by issuing tickets for minor speed infirngement when the speed was safe!
etc
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I am afraid my personal experience wouldn't support this view. Granted its only mine, but I was in UK twice in 2001, normally I only drive there every 3 or 4 years. On the first occasion I covered about 700 miles in 2 weeks in the South and East Midlands (rented Volvo), on the second 900 miles in 10 days (Harley-Davidson).
Coming from Manila where congestion is a way of life UK didn't seem too bad, but the sheer number of OBSTACLES are a pain in the ---: bumps, narrowing, lines all over the road in nice colours, heaven knows what the red ones mean, meant you were constantly altering course or negotiating something. Maddening and very irriatating. On the main roads frankly I was quite terrified on a number of occasions by the speed at which people drove and what I kept noticing was a very poor relation between speed at which travelled and proximity to hazards, by which I mean could they have stoipped if they had to.
I certainly noticed the hopeless mums in their 4WD's and also the silly "statements" drivers and car owners seem to make. 4WD's being one and BMW's another. There is also this constant nagging feeling you're doing something wrong and are about to (cameras, wardens, signs about not doing this or that) and I found this added to the stress. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the bad town driving is the resulkt of sheer confusion at the plethora of instructions and signals you're supposed to observe.
Perhaps it is pressure of life and volume of vehicles and my creeping anno domin, but on an albeit brief experience I would say UK standards have deteriorated. Immediately afterward I had a re-taste of Highway 101 and its environs around San Francisco, definitely no picnic in rush hour, but nothing like as tense as the M25.
Where I live in Asia is complete mayhem on the roads, no discipline, dangerous driving, dangerous vehicles and appalling lack of skill couple with virtually no law enforcement . All the same I was sneakingly glad to get back to it!
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...coming from south of France every few months.
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In what will undoubtably be a minority opinion, I actually believe that driving standards have improved over the years. It sometimes does not seem so as there are plenty of looneys about, but the percentage of bad drivers have actually reduced. It is tempting to look back with rose coloured specs to the mythycal days when everyone was skilled behind the wheel and courteous to there fellow road users, but there were some frightening incompatents about twenty or more years ago, who had passed a test that was very basic by to-days standards, or in many cases had not passed a car test at all having gained a motorcycle licence in the forces which gave car entitlement as well.
Prior to 1970 passing in an automatic covered one to drive manual vehicles as well, so the last of those who learnt to drive "As they went along" are coming to the end of their driving careers now. Before you shoot me down in flames, just think of some of the friends or relatives who drove you when you were younger. Some of mine were downright terrifying, and probably well plastered as well. Drinking and driving was an acceptable past-time up to the early eighties. Much as I loved my late father, his assertion that he drove better when drunk was both wrong and a view that was widely held.
The good old days? Thats what we are probably living in now.
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Congestion has increased and traffic speeds have decreased, particularly in London and its environs over the last eight years when I have been commuting.
What used to take 75 minutes regularly and 80 minutes on a bad day now takes 90 minutes regularly and 100 minutes on a bad day.
That is exactly the same route and the same vehicle.
I make that about a 12% deterioration.
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True about statistics.
Rumour has it that though there are a lot more cars "on the road" there isn't that much more mileage done (something to do with people finding it hard to drive more than two cars and a bike whilst steering their company van).
Also that though there is a bit more mileage done, its mainly on motorways.
And though journeys have gone down in town, they have increased (something to do with all the traffic "calming", 24 hour bus lanes - where are the 24 hour buses, rephased lights, and junction and 1-way "improvements").
So basically, though milage has gone up a bit on our safest roads - motorways, it's gone down on the dangerous ones.
Whilst accidents have gone up a lot since cameras were introduced.
Despite going down a lot previously, when traffic was going up a lot.
No wonder the safety lobby are so confused!
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