Hiya
I'm staying with friends in Vermont USA, winter is coming & they need to replace their car.
Now it gets a bit chilly here-30 below & snow like a Christmas Card. Hilly, loads of sharp corners, not brill road surface & adverse camber everywhere. So..what do they want? What does best on slippy surface? I was thinking light weight 4x4 like a subaru saloon (which is now the 'national' car of Vermont), but what do I know? Maybe heavy is better; there's some massive SUVs being driven here. I've also just seen that Vovlo have AWD saloons here as well.
What do the real 4x4 users think?
Thanks everyone.
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I've never owned a 4X4 so can't really give a truly informed opinion, but for what it's worth, I would be choosing a 4X4 saloon if given the choice. It sounds as though they need something that is good on poor quality road surfaces and conditions, not an actual off-roader.
At least an ordinary 4X4 saloon will have lower running costs during the rest of the year, will probably drive nicer too, and has less chance of rolling over!
Blue
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What about the Subaru Legacy B4 RSK? Always liked them and plenty of power for fun both in and out of the snow.
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I gather the range of weather conditions in Vermont are quite unique so would suggest that you're likely to get better advice locally on both the type of vehicle required and the type of vehicles that are available than you will from a (largely) UK forum.
Correct tyres are vital (people in such areas often have a least a couple of sets).
You mentioned Volvo has having AWD in the US, but so also do Mercedes and BMW (in saloons, not just SUV's) and, of course, so do Audi.
Try usenet's rec.autos.4x4
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Having had a little play on Yahoo! Autos, what about a Passat with a 3.6 litre, 288 bhp engine and all wheel drive? About $30k.
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For good handling you need a low centre of gravity and low roll-centre (not rocket science, is it?). Big, tall, 4x4's have neither - which is why so many of them have lethal handling.
Go for a Subaru with winter tyres.
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The Subarus do come to mind readily however the Jaguar X type 2.5 and 3.0 petrol versions are 4x4 and would be a more comfortable, relaxing car to be in. Certainly in the UK their running costs are about the same due to Subaru's thirst, expensive parts and servicing.
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The Subarus do come to mind readily however the Jaguar X type 2.5 and 3.0 petrol versions are 4x4 and would be a more comfortable, relaxing car to be in. Certainly in the UK their running costs are about the same due to Subaru's thirst, expensive parts and servicing.
Guess which will be the most reliable? And more thirsty than 2.5 and 3.0 petrol 4wd Jaguars?
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if you are driving in true winter conditions you will not beat a "proper" 4x4 with good winter tyres and a manual box or an auto with winter mode/tiptronic etc.subaru are reasonably good but clearance beats them in the end if in deep snow,they were also better in poor conditions when they had narrower wheels/tyres fitted.if the depth of snow is not the problem then the most important thing is the tyre type and driver ability .if safety is an issue then volvo or large 4x4 which have come a long way from the problems of years ago which is mentioned above but obviously there may be a more suitable car localy
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>> Guess which will be the most reliable? And more thirsty than 2.5 and 3.0 petrol 4wd Jaguars?
Jaguar were second (behind Lexus) in the latest US JD Power initial quality survey and the X type was the best performing car in the Jaguar range.
Do a search here or elsewhere and you will see that Subaru owners report mpg in the low 20s which is in the same range as a Jaguar.
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Funny, I get 28-30mpg from my Subaru saloon. I'd back a Subaru for reliability against any other non-Japanese make.
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I doubt whether they will be sold over there but how about a Panda 4x4. I have had mine for 2 months now and would not give it up for anything else. Have taken it properly off-road and based on this experience I'm sure it would handle snowy roads withour a problem. Ground clearance? The car is so light it would ride on top of the snow, not sink in.
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... how about a Panda 4x4.
You wouldn't be able to find it after the first decent snowfall of the season :-)
A Panda with studded snow tyres probably would work well - until someone in a massive SUV ran over it. Americans would think the Panda was hilarious - they'd assume someone had left their kids toy out.
Seriously - some of the suggestions on here indicate people have no idea about the roads/conditions in Vermont in Winter - they get so much snow some years that they run out of places to put it (it doesn't thaw after a few days like it does here).
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>> ... how about a Panda 4x4. You wouldn't be able to find it after the first decent snowfall of the season :-)
No prob, just put in your handbag until you need to drive it :)
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Thanks everyone-Bill you sure know about Vermont weather! My friend puts it as 8 months of winter followed by 4 months of really average skiing! Looks like they're looking for a subaru outback, older model. Prob just as well really as something like a WRX might well end up sideways in a ditch as soon as they floor it. Mr has a heavy right foot...
I was musing about a lightweight AWD, but there is a mega saftey angle here. EG Lorries obey same speed limits as everyone else & seem to accelerate at a not disimialiar rate to the average compact. So if you need to overtake an eratic one best not do it with plod behind. And they are HUGE! So a road presence/visibility is a good thing.
Not relevant here but I went to a hot rod expo over the weekend. Most extreme job was as 1937 ford convertible, all streamlined & single colour blue metalic, digital instumentation & a new chevy 502 cubic inch low slung in the engine bay. Looks like you'd need to remove the front wings to even change the oil, but it look great! If I knew how to put up a piccy I would. Mind you, pretty pointless in a Vermont winter, but hey, so's a motorbike!
Thanks again. I've a Q all for me that I'm about to post up,about dogs & cars. Would appreciate any input!
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As per another post I have recently been driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee in the US, no experience in snow though very reasuring on storm flooded roads. The Subaru B9 Tribeca looks intersting, otherwise if a fast handsome 4x4 saloon is the order of the day look at the Acura RL.
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A couple of thoughts since this thread has been going down a Subaru route. Advantages of the Subaru are permanent all wheel drive (no relying on automatic systems), lockable central diff and rear LSD. The manual versions also have a reduction gearbox which is useful for crawling down or climbing slippy hills. On the other hand, the autobox will sense slip and change down quicker than the driver can with a manual box.
Disadvantage is low ground clearance on the Forester(about 190 mm). The Outback is slightly better at 200 mm but has longer front and rear overhangs than the Forester so is likely to ground quicker in deep or firm snow. Both can probably take higher profile winter tyres in the 2006 versions to gain an extra cm or two.
If considering something other than a Forester, look for an alternative with the same characteristics. Many US 4 x 4 SUVs will have more power but scarcely any more ground clearance and lack reduction gearboxes or lockable diffs, ie, the Honda Ridgeway is a wonderful leisure concept but less effective in difficult conditions than a little Forester. I have a Citroen 4 x 4 estate car with lockable centre diff in the UK and it really does make a difference in extreme icy or snow conditions (in the straight ahead position, of course). The BX can be also lifted up on the hydraulic suspension to good effect in snow or standing water so ground clearance is another plus point for anything you consider.
My top choice for winter use: Jeep Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 auto
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The real answer of course is to winter in Carmel California, then it matters not what you drive.
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Oops! Meant to say Honda Ridgeline, of course. Mind you a team of Honda-developed Ridgebacks tied to a lightweight sled might be ideal for Vermont winters.
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