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A few weeks ago the M25 was shut for a long time because there was van with acetylene cylinders in it on fire; this seems like a smart move! Last night somebody was followed down the M1 by police cars, for some reason. The police fired a baton round at him and he then shot himself. As a result of this the M1 was closed, in both directions, for 7 hours. How can this be necessary or justified? I am sure that there is an explanation but what is it, please?
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Crime scene. Should have taken three hours max to secure the scene, gather the data, cart the body away, remove the car, open the motorway
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I suppose because the motorway became part of the scene of the crime, which then became subject to an investigation.
It seems a bit extreme to cause such disruption on one of the country's main arterial roads. Think of the extra time and cost that was incurred.
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If the guy killed was a crim, then who cares? Wouldn't have been being chased by the police if he was a law abiding citizen would he? One down, several thousand to go.
Have said it before in similar posts. Death is death, and no amount of investigation is going to bring back the dead, so the fact should just be accepted and the living should be allowed to go about their usual daily business.
Too many people are too hung up on death. IT's just another part of life, and is inevitable.
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Ok Dave - we'll just ignore murder.
Better still, why not leave the body in the crumpled mass of car for all to see - I'm sure it'd serve as a stark reminder of what happens when you turn into a criminal.
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Adam
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Ok Dave - we'll just ignore murder. Better still, why not leave the body in the crumpled mass of car for all to see - I'm sure it'd serve as a stark reminder of what happens when you turn into a criminal. -- Adam
Even better lets hang the body in a cage from the lamppost on the corner.
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"Even better lets hang the body in a cage from the lamppost on the corner."
Ah the old Caxton Gibbet. Is that still there?
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Yes it is! In one corner of the car park of a totally fantastic chinese restaurant - Yim Wah I think it is called.
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Wouldn't have been being chased by the police if he was a law abiding citizen would he?
Sorry but without being any kind of obsessive about these things I can think of two cases of innocents being shot, one recent and very high profile.
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-Wouldn't have been being chased by the police if he was a law abiding citizen -
Sorry pdc but tell that to the family of the Brazilian who was shot at Stockwell station.
All sorts of comments about running away and leaping of barriers were put about at the time of the shooting which were subsequently proved untrue.
My take on these closures is that the police have a job to do but are overreacting to ensure that they are not subject to any ctiticism from our political masters or the media.
As an example in these 'road closure'threads which crop up regularly in the back room I always ask why the police decided to close Tower Bridge Road for a week when the fathers for freedom protester dressed as spiderman was sitting up a crane.
The decision was pure madness IMO.The cost must have run to millions of pounds.
I am not criticising the police on the ground but the commanders who make these decisions at whatever cost to the general public as a backside protecting excercise.
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Sorry David - late night. I could swear you wrote what pdc did!
My comments still apply to pdc though!
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Adam
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I think DVD's post above is worth recalling, especially
"You, the public, have decreed as a result of complaints, ..."
Clearly from other comments above the BR is not a representative section of that public.
However, we reap what we sow...
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Every time this discussion comes up it degenerates into a 'don't you dare attack the police' discussion.
Without going into the specifics of any particular incident, it is surely without doubt that almost any accident/incident now closes major roads for much much longer than yesteryear.
I have never seen an explanation why we now have longer delays.
Is it in response to a new law?
Is new Home Office guidelines?
Is it new Police protocols?
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This may be a bit tangential, but . . .
Decades ago the M1 southbound at Hendon was closed from about midnight until late morning the following day. I saw why as I travelled northbound after midnight: a heavy lorry had brought down a signal gantry, or at any rate had bashed it and made it unstable. I found out how long the closure was when I tried to get back into London the following morning.
I wrote to my MP about it, protesting vehemently at the enormous cost of disruption involving tens of thousands of people. The matter was referred to the Met, who limply reported that they could not get hold of a heavy crane needed to deal with the gantry. They also said that I was the only person to complain. I followed up on that via my MP, suggesting that my isolation was more a reflection of the dispirited state of the country (late 1970s) than anything else. The Met subsequently made arrangements for access to heavy lifting gear 24-7-365, and confirmed that to my MP.
The point of telling this story is that you do need to complain with vigour and persistence. And sometimes MPs aren't as useless as we often think they are. I'm afraid I am inclined to think that the public sector continues to have little understanding of the horrendous costs of such disruption.
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I'm afraid I aminclined to think that the public sector continues to have little understanding of the horrendous costs of such disruption.
And this along with the nonexistent roadworks thread is the point. They don't get it. Why. Because they don't realise. Because when we moan about, we moan to each other and not the people who can do something about it.
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this guy just shot himself dead. he may not be the nicest person in the world, but we dont know the circumstances, but he probably still has family that will be affected by this.
And you lot are whinging about the M1 being shut.
Have a word with yourselves.
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this guy just shot himself dead. he may not be the nicest person in the world, but we dont know the circumstances, but he probably still has family that will be affected by this. And you lot are whinging about the M1 being shut. Have a word with yourselves.
This is exactly the emotive and illogical response we get to every thread on the subject of lengthy road closures.
Would his family be less affected if the motorway was shut for 24 hours?
It really is irrelevant if the guy was a saint or a sinner - he shot himself dead; and granted there may well be good reason why both sides of the motorway were shut for 7 hours.
However the point of this discussion is that closures for accidents/incidents are now much longer and it is surely reasonable to ask why this occurs.
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Its not an illogical response. Its because you're carping on about police methods without actually having any real idea about what they do and why it takes the time it does, and with a lack of sensitivity. There really is more to this world than the M1 closure inconveniencing people.
On the subject matter of the delay someone earlier in the post mentioned the police wouldnt intentionally delay it. They obviously have a job to do and are doing it. Just because you dont understand why or dont know why doesnt make it bad practise. It just means you arguing from a groundless position.
If you were his family you would want the police to take as long as necessary to deal with this in a full and proper way.
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The discussion is centred on why police nowadays take so much longer to open roads after incidents.
Police methods being queried is not a criticism of policemen.
I am not aware of any other country that has such lengthy closures in similar circumstances and it is reasonable to ask why. What has changed in UK law? or police procedures?
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Yes, he shot himself! Nobody did it for him and if his family are affected that is very sad but it is something he could have thought about before deciding to kill himself, nobody else involved, just a free, personal, and probably bad, choice
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> inclined to think that the public sector continues to have little
> understanding of the horrendous costs of such disruption.
Just short of 6 million people work in the public sector in the UK, roughly 20 percent of the total workforce. The idea that only heroic privateers are inconvenienced by this kind of thing, or that they are the only ones who understand the consequences, is somewhat shortsighted.
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AK 47 I think you are missing the point of the whole thread - we fully expect any incident to be investigated and we are not insensitive.
We just want to know why it takes so much longer these days than it ever did before to open the roads after any type of major accident or incident and what we can do to get this across to the powers that be ... and to make some practical suggestions to speed matters up.
Try having some sensitivity for those who suffer because they miss hospital appointments , flights , exams for their degree ,etc etc all due to the seven hour queues which are becoming the norm for comparatively minor incidents.
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"The idea that only heroic privateers are inconvenienced by this kind of thing, or that they are the only ones who understand the consequences, is somewhat shortsighted."
I used to drive to a nationalised saltmine, and neither I nor anybody else cared a hoot how long I was held up by anything, as long as I had some sort of excuse; nobody on the working levels thought for a moment of what anything cost.
That industry is now functioning more efficiently with about half the staff.
Rudolf
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Let's wrap this one up, which I've been reading and resisting comment on for ages.
I am professionally in Nottinghamshire, and do a voluntary 'job' in Nottinghamshire, which places me adjacent to this.
DvD is absolutely right, 100% and no more need be said. {Quite. DD}
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