Hi all.
Just wondered if it was possible (please note I don't say practical) to make a citizen's arrest if one spotted another driver doing something really dangerous on the road? If so, what would plod's reaction be if they were called out whilst you had the other driver under your 'control'?
I am talking theoretical here (anything to get out of doing work on a Monday morning) but the thought (not the action) did occur to me on the drive in today.
Have a good week!
TT
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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www.kevinboone.com/citizens_arrest.html
I imagine if your suspect was sloshed and was trying to get into a car mr plod would give you a pat on the back.
However, to quote from the above link:
"A person arrested unlawfully is entitled to sue for damages, and to use reasonable force to resist arrest.
Force used to carry out an unlawful arrest is also unlawful, and may be a criminal offence.
In addition, evidence gathered as a result of unlawful arrest may be declared inadmissible in court (but don't stake your defence on it).
To show that an arrest is lawful the onus is on the arrestor to show that the circumstances fell into one of the specific situations recognised as permitting an arrest."
So probably not worth hospitalising some chav for undertaking!
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>>So probably not worth hospitalising some chav for undertaking!>>
But I bet we've all been very tempted at some time or other...:-)
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Don't do it. Our otherwise inactive police pull out all the stops for those they perceive as vigilantes. Likely they will charge you with something.
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Does it not also have to be a criminal, as opposed to civil, offence to justify citizen's arrest?
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There's no such thing as a civil offence Frostbite.
An arrestable offence is generally, if I remember my criminal law correctly, any where an adult would be subject to a maximum sentence of five years' imprisonment.
It's set out at the link given above, in fact.
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It makes me wonder about the wisdom of stopping someone who is committing, or who has committed, an offence e.g. theft from an old dear. If you say a youth stealing from an old person, would you intervene and overpower the youth, and wait for the police, or wait till the youth has gone and then call the police. Or if you were the only witness to a crime, then it would be one persons word against another's.
To get this onto motoring, what if you saw someone - a stranger - about to get into a car and you knew that they were 'tired and emotional' due to consuming alcohol. Or if you saw someone drive into a cyclist, would you try to apprehend them?
I think I would be very wary given a) the law and b) the possibility of being assaulted.
Leif
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It depends whether they were bigger than you! There is nothing stopping you from talking to someone about to get in a car drunk and they will be safer getting a taxi as being caught drunk is lose licence and lose job and possibly lose liberty time.
If they ignore you then ring the police and report them to make sure they do get caught if they seem very blotto. You offered them a choice and they chose to drive drunk. If they don't get apprehended then you have a nice article for the local rag about drunk drivers allowing to get off scot free ;-)
If someone injured someone then you can at least shout 'oi you stay there until the police/ambulance get here' while mentally noting down the number plate and description of person what did it. If they're much bigger than you or look mean then the mentally noting down their details before calling an ambulance for the poor wretch in the road is what I'd do.
teabelly
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Out on the road i wouldn't have a go as i have seen the results of what happens when a colleague (cyclist)confronted a driver(spent eighteen months in hospital-having been nearly killed with a pick-axe handle weilded by the driver)"Theft from an old dear"though I would have no hesitation in intervening in that or a similar scenario,even though i might regret it later.I have tackled anti-social behaviour in my road on a number of occassions(vandalism of neighbours property-three times'rowdiness at 3am-once,)Maybe i have been lucky so far none of the toe rags have been armed,but i was brought up to respect other people and their property and i won't stand for such behaviour outside my house.If people dont stand up for their right not to suffer vandalism,anti-social behaviour,crime then society(as is happening)will break down.
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There's no such thing as a civil offence Frostbite.
I am lost with this one i had a holiday courtessy of HMP for a civil offence so there must be such a thing. oh and it was over a matter of principal and yes i would do the same again as there was no crime committed ...cheers...keo.
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what would plod's reaction be if they were called out whilst you had the other driver under your 'control'?
For one, I wouldn't call them Plod if you were rolling around in the wet with Mr Angry. Just "Officer" would do nicely.
I can reveal the following nugget (minefield) of information to you. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. A lot of knowledge could be even worse!
Be careful when trying to define an arrestable ofence. It is not what Mr Joe Public may think it is. Driving in a manner which YOU may not like is NOT an arrestable offence. Definitions tax the brains of even the highest paid and mightiest lawyers and judges
Before anyone starts tinkering at being Sherlock, you'd best leave it to those who know what they are doing. Or, you can join the police force and do the 18 week course to learn about it properly.
Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, s.24 (4)-(7) - Arrest without warrant for arrestable offences
(4) Any person may arrest without a warrant -
(a) anyone who is in the act of committing an arrestable offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing such an offence.
(5) Where an arrestable offence has been committed, any person may arrest without a warrant -
(a) anyone who is guilty of the offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.
(6) Where a constable has reasonable grounds for suspecting that an arrestable offence has been committed, he may arrest without a warrant anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of the offence.
(7) A constable may arrest without a warrant -
(a) anyone who is about to commit an arrestable offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be about to commit an arrestable offence.
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Lets look at it from another point of view.
We all make mistakes. How would you feel if you were dragged from your car and detained against your will until the police arrived by someone who perceived that you had done something dangerous?
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Highly delighted Tom.
Big wedge in false arrest/imprisonment.
DVD
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I've made two. Neither incident involved a car.
#1 was a guy in an organised team shoplifting Harrods. I chased him out and down Walton Street, tackled him and held him down. Out on licence for armed robbery. Not armed at the time I met him...
#2 was a guy robbing an old boy inside a bank. Old boy had cash takings from paper shop. Knocked him down, sat on him until Bill appeared.
Bill were very happy both times. WPC first on scene at #2 flirted like hell from then until he was sent down 4 months later.
As has been said, offence must be one punishable by five years or more in jail.
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You would be far better off 'detaining' the said miscreant until the Police arrived since by detaining someone you are not 'arresting them' - the difference being in that when someone is arrested you are depriving them of their liberty and then all the associated caveats surrounding lawful arrests etc. come into force, while for detention they do not - and the law recognises this and allows you to use reasonable force with which to detain the said person so they cna be handed into 'lawful custody'.
Think PCSOs - they have NO POWERs of arrest only detention. You would be acting in the same way as them.
I think the Powers come from the Criminal Law Act 1970-something IIRC and unless you are clear on criminal offences and what are 'arrestable offences' I would stay away from using PACE (as a Non-Police person) and using the powers therein. But if you are clued up, then yeah, use those (non-Police) PACE powers of arrest.
Advice has to be, safety first. So remember, detain, not arrest if you really must 'have a go'.
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Im not plain stupid, just a special kind of stoopid.
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Tact
The term 'arrestable offence' under PACE has been amended by Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 Part III Sect 110 on.
Police can arrest for ANY offence provided certain conditions are not met.
Mr Joe Public likewise in respect of an INDICTABLE offence (basically one which can have a mode of trial at Crown Court) only but again only if certain conditions are not met.
Whilst the Act has received Royal Assent not sure at the moment if a commencement order has been made in respect of Part III.
DVD
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