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except the landrover of course
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Commenting on the tyres debate rather than the original thread of actually driving off road:
I agree with the "winter tyres in winter" argument from experience. My employer is based in Linkoping, Sweden, and I travel out from the UK at least once a month on average. It is the law in Sweded to use winter tyres (these can be with or without studs) in the winter (as defined by specific dates) and summer tyres in the summer. NONE of my many friends and colleagues drive a 4x4. Almost to a man or woman they drive the same front wheel drive fodder that we drive in the UK, with of course Volvos and SAABs well represented. I have never known one of them become stuck, and neither have I ever become stuck.
Good winter tyres make a collossal difference, even without a limited slip diff. The first time I really experienced this as a driver was in that horrid little Hyundai mini MPV (Matrix I recall) with the equally horrid central dash display. Having nearly fallen over by walking on snow on top of sheet ice getting in to the car, I decided to try and drive away as if the road were dry rather than 'gently'. Sure enough, the car simply drove away with no fuss, and as mentioned above, a few minutes later I was cruising on a road completely covered with both loose and packed snow at the speed limit, 90kph.
So, if we experienced more snow in Bucks I'd much rather keep the chipped V70 2.4T that I enjoy so much and invest a few hundred notes in some steel wheels and winter tyres than invest considerably more notes in the daftness of a 4x4 that is inappropriate for road use 99.999% of the time.
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I live in Surrey
WE have had snow for 5 days out of the last 1000. YOu seriously expect me to worry about having a set of Winter tyres?
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Right then Mr Renault "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" Family, pay attention.
Winter tyres are not snow tyres. They are tyres that improve traction in ALL winter conditions. Once ambient temperatures drop below 11c you will benefit from them. In rain you will definitely benefit from them. Snow and ice? Yup, you guessed it.
We trust one is now suitably contrite.
:op
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The OQ begs the question - is it just "not a road" ie a farm track with some muddy puddles or is the house in question across 10 miles of peat bog?
One imagines that the people who live there now have some experience of the conditions (which can be dire on Exmoor), and could advise. The only way to be certain is to have a true go-anywhere vehicle like a Supacat, but the cost/benefit will be unrealistic. People I know who live up there have a sensibly stocked freezer, a genny, and a full tank of heating oil and just don't go out if it's too difficult. Bear in mind that snow drifts will stop anything except a tractor with a snow shovel!
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Contrition? Get out of it?
You seriously think that tyre manufacturers make tyres that dont work well below 11c?
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I am not a great fan of the Freelander either but to be fair to Land Rover, it was never designed for serious off roading. For that you want a Defender, preferably the SWB TD5. Almost unstoppable.
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>>but to be fair to Land Rover, it was never designed for serious off roading.
I think that there are two points here;
1) LR never did intend it for *serious* off-roading.
2) Tyres are a big part of the performance of any vehicle off-road and the Freelander has road tyres.
However, whilst they never intended it for serious off-roading they did at least imply, if not actually state, that it was capable of offroading to a degree. Pictures of jungles, Tomb-raider, advertising campaigns etc. etc.
One would at least assume that it had more capability than a, for example, mondeo. But the reality is that it does not.
The quality issues, which may well have gone away now, didn't acutlaly affect its offroad abilty - although it was a bit of a pain keep stopping to walk back and pick up another piece which had fallen off.
The reality is that build quality to one side, it is absolutely rubbish offroad. It is not as good as even the wussiest of wussy offroaders. Virtually anything with real 4WD will out perform it, anything with a reasonable amount of ground clearance will be able to go places it cannot.
The hill descent is an ineffectual gimmick - and I have brought them down slopes where it was *really* needed.
And on top of all of that, its noisy and bumpy on the freeway, it has inadequate storage space, the back seats are awful for adults both in terms of seat comfort and space, and visibility, especially rearwards, is awful.
IMO it is a dreadful, dreadful car which has done nothing for the reputation of LR, particularly in the US.
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Contrition? Get out of it? You seriously think that tyre manufacturers make tyres that dont work well below 11c?
They work adequately to poorly below 11c. Winter tyres work superbly below 11c.
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From Michelin's website
A road is always less predictable in winter than in hot weather; irrespective of whether it's snowy, icy or just wet, the surface always gives relatively less grip than in summer.
Because of the specific form of a winter tyre, which is designed to displace the water passing under the tyre, a winter tyre reduces the risk of aquaplaning.
A winter tyre gives much better adherence and excellent traction, because it has a deeper tread than a summer tyre. In fact, the tread of a winter tyre has many more sipes than that of a summer tyre, for better grip on snow. A winter tyre is made of special silica rubber compounds, which are better adapted to the cold and enable better braking.
More than just a snow tyre, the winter tyre is actually designed for driving in all winter conditions :
- on all types of surface: on roads that are snowy, lightly or heavily iced, marginally damp or very wet and under substantial depths of water but also on cold, dry roads &
- in all of winters atmospheric conditions: fine or heavy rain, damp or alternatively very dry and cold &
- in very low temperatures.
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>>in very low temperatures.
below 11c ? That's not very low.
Surely the main purpose of a winter tyre, at least in this country, is the larger tread so it is better able to cope with carp on the road, including rain or snow, rather than different behaviour in the different temperatures ?
Noisy things though.
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Sorry to have hijacked this offroad thread by talking about winter tyres. I couldn´t agree more, NoDosh - they are designed for and perform better in standard UK winter conditions, global warming permitting. And they make a huge difference in braking an any kind of cold wet surface.
I also think I´m right in saying that if you have an accident out here in Germany in the winter, and you don´t have winter tyres on, then the insurance is invalidated.
But for those 5 days out of the last 1000 when steady snow has crippled the UK motorway network, winter tyres aren´t going to help a great deal as you´ll still be held up by the 99% of other road users slithering around on summer rubber, piroueting into each other etc. etc. Equally, if it´s drifting, you don´t want to be out there in anything other than a snowplough.
But hey, it´s summer, the birds are singing, the top is off on the Barchie and winter seems a million miles away.
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and winter seems a million miles away.
Yup, I've reached that point in the year when anticipation of the coming ski season starts to overtake the fond memories of the last.
My year is divided roughly as follows:
skiing
kayaking
mountain biking
kayaking
skiing
and I use a car to get to all of them (motoring link)
But enough of the thread hijack. I still think the Terrano will give the best offroad performance whilst still offering some comfort. The Kia Sorrento is more comfortable and better equipped but more expensive (but still cracking value for money)
If it's really "life on the edge" stuff where the ability to bring in 50 litres of diesel and a generator, plus a week of shopping and firewood, then a Defender or a Mitsubishi L200 double cab (or Nissan Navarra /Toyota HiLux) with a canopy for the load bed would be my choice.
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Agree the sorrento is a suprisingly capable wagon off road and astonishing value for money.
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Yep quite fancy a sorrento to replace the Forester at some point in the next 18 months. But SWMBO refuses to get into any car with more than 10 square cm of plastic wood. The Sorrento has at least three square km of it, so I can't say I blame her.
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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-Bear in mind that snow drifts will stop anything except a tractor with a snow shovel!-
Rubbish and Codswallop - Even during the 1963 winter when I lived in the wilds of North Northumberland the road beyond our farmhouse over the moors was declared closed by the Police with drifts four foot high. When they were ploughed they were the height of the school bus.
My old man either drove the old Land Rover over the top , through or round the drifts with only occasional use of a shovel or a couple of sacks to get him going.
If the drifts were too high on the road he'd just drive off road into the fields or on the moorland. It was a very rare event when he had to get the tractor to pull him out.
Anyway if I had to be picking one of the original choices given at the start of this thread I would take the Terrano.
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Very much depends on the type of snow. Round here we have big fields, and roads below them, with a hedge on each bank. Fine, powdery snow settles in the road. I've seen it 4 ft deep, and I can assure you it's undriveable. Winter of 63 snow must have been different - I was only 4, but I can remember walking on the drifts we had then, and when I (and my kids) tried walking on the powder drifts 6 years back we floundered.
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Sorry Helicopter, I have to disagree. Snowdrifts will stop anything if they are deep enough that the undertray/bottom of the car/tractor is supported by that snow then the wheels just can't get the grip. Your old man probably avoided the deep drifts on roads by going onto fields where the snow had blown off and was less deep. Even a Land Rover can't deal with drifts as deep as the top of its bonnet (or even less), nor can a tractor unless it digs its way forward and reduces the depth of snow. And yes, I was around in 1963, and yes so was my uncle, a farmer on the edge of the N Yorks Moors and he was cut off for a month, 'cos that was how long it took for the roads to be cleared so that he could get out in his Massey Ferguson. Couldn't drive via the fields 'cos there were hedges, ditches, fences, rivers etc which barred his path, most of which had deep drifts against them. Same with mud or water, if it supports the undertray you ain't got much chance - even in water, a LR will get to a stage where it "floats" - and it doesn't have to be that deep.
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