The point is not whether you should wear protective gear or not. I always wear leather trousers, good quality boots and an armoured jacket even on short rides. That is my choice, just as it was to wear a seatbelt long before they became compulsory. Because that is my decision does not give me the right to force everyone else to do the same. We should all be free to chose our own route to hell, the trouble with personal safety legislation is where do you stop?
Helmets in cars and a complete ban on alchohol would undoubtably save lives, but would you like to have those restrictions forced on you?
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We shouldall be free to chose our own route to hell, the trouble with personal safety legislation is where do you stop?
I'd kinda go along with this, but you should be able to choose your route with the knowledge of what it entails
Helmets in cars and a complete ban on alchohol would undoubtably save lives, but would you like to have those restrictions forced on you?
I'm afraid life isnt as clear cut as that. the wiseass remark is on the lines of 'the only person who gets hurt is me, so its my choice'. but what if you have a partner and/or kids to support? dont you think they would be hurt?
WTM
BTW-DD, sorry for not posting a warning, but I truly believed it wasnt THAT upsetting.
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Errr.....I faint at the thought of needles, but that 'chick' in those photos looked as though she was really enjoying the attention.
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I'm afraid life isnt as clear cut as that. the wiseass remark is on the lines of 'the only person who gets hurt is me, so its my choice'. but what if you have a partner and/or kids to support? dont you think they would be hurt?
Hence my point about suicide not being illegal; you cannot legislate to make people sensible and caring. You cannot protect them from themselves. You can only protect them from that which they cannot reasonably understand, and from the idiocy of others.
And yes, I have seen the effect of a suicide on close relations. It was no laughing matter; but the person concerned was disturbed and was going to upset them somehow, whatever.
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Let Darwinism sort them out. If you don't have the common sense to get you through your day to day life without maiming yourself and are in possession of a fully functioning brain, tough!
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Someone once said, "To protect man from his folly, is to produce a nation of fools." Well, you only have to look around these days to see that's true.
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What next?Compulsory helmets for pedal bikes?I would not ride any distance without,but would be aggreived if I was forced to wear one to zip round the corner to the post box.As for motorbikes,there are many small ones that do not go so fast,would they have to wear full leathers?It would not be easy to police either,it is obvious if someone is wearing a helmet or not,but leathers could be under a weatherproof suit.
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Where I live, leathers in stop-start traffic when it's 40C out there? I'd still be using the medical services anyway when I get hospitalized for dehydration. Isn't it wonderful how the nanny non-bikers love to tut-tut and huff and puff. Bet most of them have never thrown their leg over a ride anyway. Let 'em get back to polishing their Audis and pruning their daffodils and drinking their half of a half of bitter with the Scrimshaws from No. 25 down at the Goat and Compasses.
I'm just waiting for the EU Directive that says everyone's bed has to have rails around it so they don't fall out.
Long sleeved shirt with elbow protectors and a back protector worn over it works well for protection in hot weather.
Legislate the risk out of everything and you reduce the human spirit to robotic compliance with mindless rules, and the next generation will never have the balls to take any risks at all. How do you think we got where we are if people didn't take physical risks down through history?
Let those who feel safer in leathers wear them, let those who legislate that practice as compulsory find something meaningful to do with their lives.
Well I'm a rebel as are those in my group, and the 120 odd other HD riders around this vast city of ours. Tank-top, bare arms, leather vests with the club colours on them, beanie helmet, Raybans, half-finger gloves, leather jeans and a good pair of boots (useful for protecting feet and ankles and kicking dents in car doors when their drivers don't show us the respect we deserve as equal road users). Girls on the back go for long sleeves because they they hate getting tanned (makes them look like low-lifes from the mountain, as mine always says).
We've ridden all over this vast and varied archipelago like that and have no plans to change.
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The police can't enforce the existing traffic laws as it is. They don't need any more. This is one which could be done with cameras though, then there would be even more unrigistered vehicles and false plates.
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Interesting. This thread is almost overwhelmingly against the proposal to make leathers compulsory. some objections are practical (ie the difficulty in enforcement0 but most are based on principle ("it's my body and my risk, the nanny state can get lost...")
Do not exactly the same arguments apply to helmets and seatbelts? Yet if a thread had started instead with a proposal to repeal the compulsory wearing of seatbelts / helmets, it would have been shouted down in short order I suspect.
For what it is worth, then I think all of this stuff should be up to the adult (children are different) and the law has no business protecting us from ourselves.
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There is something to be said for repealing the seatbelt law.
Do milkmen really need to put their seatbelt on to drive 10 yards down a deserted cul-de-sac at 6am? Nanny says so, but the milkman may disagree.
Courier drivers often hook the seatbelt around their shoulder so that they look legal from behind. This is in fact illegal, but they have made a rational choice that the time spent locking up is not worth it.
Likewise a pregnant woman may prefer to take her chances when at low speeds. In a serious impact she will be worse off, but in a light impact the unborn child could be a lot better off. I know that there are exemptions during pregnancy, but they apply once it is difficult to fit a belt, not in the first 6 months IIRC.
Difficult to argue that a rational biker would ever conclude that a helmet is not worth it, though.
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I'd wear a seatbelt even if it wasn't law... I know plenty of people who don't wear their seatbelt and can't understand why not. I tell our regular taxi driver that he should wear his, purely because if we get hit and he needs to be in control of his vehicle, he might be on my lap in the back 'cos he's been knocked out of his seat.
It just boils down to common sense. If I go on holiday to a hot, sunny country, I wear sun cream, if I'm drilling a hole in the wall, I wear goggles. People who don't want to protect themselves should be allowed to do so. We're all adults and there are plenty of choices to make on a day to day basis that could have a massive impact on your well being - if you're not clever enough to make the right choice, tough.
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I'm not a biker, but regularly attend RTCs involving them (summer sundays, don't you just love 'em). All I can add is that I've seen bikers wearing leathers walk away with a limp from an accident, which killed a T-shirt guy in similar circumstances. Agree it's personal choice, but I know what I'd wear if I ever got the two wheel urge.
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I know what I'd wear if I ever got the two wheel urge.
Me too - leather, helmet, all forms of restraint [excuse me while I calm down... ;-) ]. And every passenger in a car I'm driving understands that we're not going anywhere until they are strapped in.
But it is a big step from my strong preference to requiring that everyone agree with me, regardless of any differences in their circumstances!
[Or, to put it differently, they are free to demonstrate their idiocy to me if they wish]
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Suicide is, in fact, illegal.
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I don't believe there has ever been a successful prosecution, though.
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Indeed not. Though trying the deceased (with defendent in court) for their crimes whilst alive is not without precedent (read any brief history of the Papacy).
And if suicide is illegal, then one would assume that attempted suicide is also illegal. Some religious zealots a few hundred years ago are bound to have done someone for that?
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Actually, I think suicide is no longer a crime. I seem to remember it being decriminalised a few years back.
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Suicide is, in fact, illegal.
No, it isn't. Assisting a suicide is, though.
Hence the difference between, on the one hand, driving off a cliff and, on the other, ramming someone from behind and pushing their car off the cliff. Even if you knew the driver wanted to end it all, the latter is illegal.
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What I omitted to mention, and should have, is that for those who hate the weight and discomfort of leathers like me, there are good lightweight mesh jackets on the market with built-in armour. Joe Rocket and Teknik make them. I have a Teknik. Trouble is they look weenie. Ride with the zip open and they can be tolerable on a hot day. Nonetheless mine is always wringing wet after a couple of hours of hard riding in the heat with just a tank-top underneath. Bonus is they can be bunged into a washing machine at the end of the ride.
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Actual experience:
Went to a RTA where one of my Constables on motor cycle had struck a pile of diesel on the road at a fair rate of knots and as a result had slid along the road for some considerable distance. He had been wearing leathers which at the arms, seat of the bum etc had been worn down to uniform level. I was amazed that he, apart from some stiffness, was able to walk about without any skin missing.
Sort of made me tremble as my Plod motor cycle days all we had was a waxed Belstaff that would not have given much protection.
Mind you , like Growler, we were taught and instructed in no uncertain language to keep it upright.......
DVD
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"just a tank-top underneath."
Doesent Frank Spencer wear a tank top? Is it a stripey one G?
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W call it a "sando" (local lingo), sleeveless t-shirt. Harley designs naturally.
Here you are:
groups.msn.com/honestjohn/growlettesplace.msnw?act...8
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Seat belts. I know I drive more carefully if I'm not wearing one. The last thing I drove was an elderly Merc. horse lorry, seatbelts not fitted. You take the corners that much more carefully! There's definitely a false sense of security that comes from wearing a belt.
This is in no sense a post commending the non-wearing of seatbelts. Nor a post in their favour. I know I felt pretty glad I'd been wearing one when that weed (tree!) grew out of the side of the Montego.
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Didn't Clarkson once suggest that steering wheel airbags be replaced with steering wheel spikes?
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Er,no,they don't.They are exempted as 'a person using a vehicle constructed or adapted for the delivery of goods or mail to consumers or addressees while engaged in making local rounds of deliveries or collections'.
Y
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Oh.
They seem to think that they they are, though. Especially the ones that claim to have been pulled over!
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