I think this article sums up that all levels of Government are anti car.
www.kentonsunday.co.uk/editions/2005_04_10/pdfs/ro...f
Unless all us motorists complain to politicians about our special interest in freedom of movement, we can only expect to pay through the nose in the future.
For evil to succeed, all it takes is good men to do nothing.
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Thanks the link to an intersting article, dodger.
Very intersting to see the haulage lobby starting to recognise that some solution to congestion is needed if they are to stay in business.
There's a bit of special pleading in there, but they seem to have grasped the key point -- that "We have seen a masive rise in traffic over the last 20 years and it isn't sustainable at the predicted rate".
But since very few road-users seem prepared to accept any limitations on their own usage, I suspect that politicians will continue to shy away from radical measures until congestion turns into gridlock. Until then, we're in a sort of prisoner's dilemma.
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Since motorists as possibly the largest interest group (?) in the UK, I suspect that any political party making their interests the main point of their manifesto should be returned with a huge majority.
Just off to get myself elected.......
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Since motorists as possibly the largest interest group (?) in the UK, I suspect that any political party making their interests the main point of their manifesto should be returned with a huge majority.
Aha! "The Frostbite Party -- we'll fight any measures to reduce congestion"
"Whadda we want? Gridlock!!!"
When do we want it? Now!!!"
Yes, it's gotta be a vote-winner ;-)
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"Aha! "The Frostbite Party -- we'll fight any measures to reduce congestion"
"Whadda we want? Gridlock!!!"
When do we want it? Now!!!"
Yes, it's gotta be a vote-winner ;-)"
I will vote for him. The only man to deliver on his manifesto promises.
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Seriously
Drivers contribute proportionaly more to the exchequer than any other group in the UK. Therefore we should have more say in the running of the country.
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I'm sure most of us motorists find it in our hearts to provide some public transport out of our taxes for those without cars. Pity the PT brigade aren't so magnanimous and wish all of us out of our cars and onto some filthy bus/train. As the more enlightened of the two groups I think us motorists should get more of a say on transport policy.
teabelly
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So to sum up:
Govt totally incapable of producing a coherent/reliable & sensibly priced public transport network therefore it's the motorists fault so let's make life as difficult as possible for them
Another one of those british project management successes to add to the list:
Millenium dome, new wembley stadium, Rover, Channel tunnel -- etc etc
Makes you proud to be British !!
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Actually, excluding Rover, they are all super examples of excelent project management and superb engineering and do make me proud to be British
Ok so three of them are financial nightmares.
Ok and Two of them happen not to be British.
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IF drivers all stopped driving for 1 day, HMG could not afford the revenue loss.
So the policy as stated is patently stoooopid.
Oh , it's Government policy. that's all right then:-(
madf
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patently stoooopid.
Oi!
;-)
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If drivers should pay the full cost of their car use, including environmental costs, surely politicians should pay the full cost of their policies?
Especially when they get it wrong?
::[cough}::Rover::{cough]::
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We get the politicians we deserve. UK transport policy has been a mess for at least 30 years because they all jump according to short-term self interest.
We're a crowded nation and with population likely to increase by 5 million over the next 20 or so years (due to government policy and pressure from businesses who want to import low-cost labour) we urgently need an integrated transport policy with fast, clean and efficient public transport. Other countries have done it, and so should we. Ranting about 'anti-car' doesn't help. If we adopt a do-nothing approach then we won't be able to get out of our driveways for traffic. Most A-roads these days seem to resenemble long queues anyway.
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The UK is overcrowded. The same people who want unrestricted access to this country by immigrants from all over the world are the ones who then turn round and bleat about ecological values. They can't seem to grasp that any new arrivals will be entitled to the same standard of living as those already here, which means more houses and towns will need to be built and we will need more roads for the cars they will own.
It's not an integrated transport policy we need, it's some joined up thinking by whichever government is in power.
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The UK is overcrowded. The same people who want unrestricted access to this country by immigrants from all over the world are the ones who then turn round and bleat about ecological values.
Who would that be then? The hotel, catering, hospitality and building industries? These seem to be the people pressing (behind the scenes) for overseas workers. The story is that 'British people don't want the jobs' (well, who wants to work night-shift in central London for minimum wage - if you're lucky!). In my part of the country there is a very large British plc that is bringing IT staff in directly from India. Another company (a bank - former building society) has recently booked out ALL the rooms in a local cheap hotel for admin staff it is bringing in from overseas.
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Don't forget that the point that the Road Hauliers Association makes about the fact that virtually everything you consume comes by lorry also applies to tradesmen and their tools and materials. You will find that all tradesmen and businesses factor into their prices their transport costs. Therefore if road pricing comes in at say 50p a mile don't be surprised if that nice three piece suite you bought at a shop five mile away will now cost an extra £5 for delivery. If you need a plumber or an electrician to come from 10 miles away don't be surprised when his call-out charge has gone up by a tenner. The fact is that tradesmen cannot get ladders and tools and reels of cable or bags of plaster or 3m copper pipe on and off the underground or buses.
Also don't think that because you live outside London you don't pay the Congestion Charge, you do, indirectly if you have gas or electricity or a telephone or any other nationally available utility. Quite simply the utilities are regulated and must charge national rates, their vehicles are not necessarily exempt from the CC and the cost is therefore factored into their national prices. Hence a BT customer on Shetland is actually paying a part of his call cost to TfL every time he makes a call.
Already I know of two electricians and three plumbers who will no longer work in Central London because they will not pay an extra £25 a week when they can get plenty of work outside the CC area, when it goes to £40 a week it will get even harder for them to justify going inside the CC.
I believe Newton had a Law about every action having a reaction.
Cockle
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Thinking about the growth in road traffic has made me consider that traffic growth may not continue to grow at the same rate as in the past.
I remember in the mid 1960's when most families did not own a car, my parents had two. By the mid 1970's more families had cars and two car families were still fairly rare. By this time both my brother and I were driving and meant we now had 4 cars in the family - very rare indeed.
Taking this thought further we can see that most families now have one or two cars. Most young people find not having a driving licence, and possibly a car as well, has social disadvantages.
Well there are certainly going to be limiting factors to the growth in the number of car drivers. Not all people want to drive, but probably about 80% of the adult population. Not all drivers will want ot own a car, limiting this number to about 80%. Not all drivers will want to drive at peak times because they either do not need to or value their time better. I would have thought that we are probably getting close to the expected limit of maximum usage. There will always be large periods of time during the day when drivers cannot use their cars because they are at work. At weekends many families will use only one car so they can travel as a family.
With regard to road transport I still have to ask why so much farm produce has to be moved over such vast distances. Why do supermarkets not start an area of local produce, I feel sure customers would welcome the chance to support local farmers. The reduction might only be small, but as Tesco says - every little helps.
All of these thoughts do not include anything about congestion charging, fuel taxation, parking problems, etc. These all seem to be more of a sledge hammer to crack a nut policy. They are never formulated into an integrated policy for road users. There has never been any relation between the taxes raised and the money spend of road development and maintenance. All other expenses like speed cameras, parking schemes, congestion charging all have an effect of the total tax take of the Government.
Unfortunately were are now ruled by the minority interest pressure group, Harrold Wilson warned of this in the early 1960's. Any needed road scheme such as a bypass must now go to a public enquiry, where it can be delayed by minority interest groups - sometimes for years. Then the budgeted funding is no longer available due to the delays and adds even more years of delay. I know from personal experience this happened with the Medway Tunnel and the link roads on both sides.
All of current Government road policies have been shaped by special interest groups that claim to be representative, but almost ignore the requirements of car drivers. So now is the time for us to be heard.
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I think the main problem with UK transport policy has always been the governments insistance on always tackling the symptoms rather than the disease.
What I mean by this is rather than looking at why traffic is on the increase, they just look at building new roads, pricing motorists off the road or just constantly banging on about public transport, which for many people isn't a viable option.
I think the government should look at the following things :-
1) Why are there so many people in the UK who rather than move will happily do a 100+ mile commute every day.
2) Why are so many companies still insistant on being in London and other major cities when they could be based in many diverse locations in the UK (like in most Continental countries).
3) Why does the government not look at giving companies realistic incentives (which could be passed down to employees) to re-locate, or altenatively dis-incentives to being in London for example.
4) Why doesn't the government do something to counter the culture of suspicion and predjudice against teleworking.
These are all of the points I can think of right now, but I'm sure the armies of consultants various government departments employ, could do much better.
The government should be looking at WHY Britain is a country on the move, and how to alleviate this with non-punitive measures.
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Car/road use is partly a consequence of economic success. During recessions car use falls so congestion is less of a problem. The rapid house price inflation of the last few years has made it much harder for people to live where they work. Jobs aren't as secure as they were so you expect to change employers a few times a decade so commuting becomes the only sensible option. Working from home should be pushed more as the norm for as many people as possible. With voice over IP and remote desktop monitoring it would be entirely possible to have people work from home and still have their IT support staff be able to help them with software problems. Not so easy if they have a hardware problem I grant you but it would save a lot of commuting time and impact.
I suspect the govt's real fear is that car/road use will fall dramatically in the next few years due to greater use of the internet and working at home. Imagine if everyone worked at home for one day a week. Revenue from fuel would drop by 20% at least. Trips to the shops can be cut drastically with online shopping. The whole road charging thing is designed to make sure that prices can be whacked up more easily under the guise of demand management. When demand falls prices will go up, not the other way round which is counter to normal economic behaviour.
Supermarkets could do more to source locally but overseas food is often cheaper and the british consumer wants cheap above all other considerations. When shopping for food I do try and choose things from this country and those geographically closer if possible. I know waitrose seem to make a thing about UK sourced produce and have their own network of farms down south.
teabelly
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1) Why are there so many people in the UK who rather than move will happily do a 100+ mile commute every day.
- Have you tried getting children into a decent school when you move - sorry we are full!!! Bring back cachment areas.
2) Why are so many companies still insistant on being in London and other major cities when they could be based in many diverse locations in the UK (like in most Continental countries).
- Short sighted / director's like the social life. Realistically a big PLC needs to be near the city.
3) Why does the government not look at giving companies realistic incentives (which could be passed down to employees) to re-locate, or altenatively dis-incentives to being in London for example.
- Ken is doing this with Congestion Charge isn't he.
4) Why doesn't the government do something to counter the culture of suspicion and predjudice against teleworking.
- As an occasional teleworker you can't allways replace the face to face interaction.
The government should be looking at WHY Britain is a country on the move, and how to alleviate this with non-punitive measures.
-Agreed but all our friend Tony will do is recruit more, non-productive, civil servants on their index linked pensions to look at the problem and nothing will be done.
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"The government should be looking at WHY Britain is a country on the move, and how to alleviate this with non-punitive measures. "
It has:
looked at house buying practices in England which are archaic: Practical Action: none.
Looked at cost of new houses: John Prescott has spoken on £60k houses.
Looked at the speed - sorry slowness of Planning Applications - for everything - practical action? None.
In all seriousness, for change to come a sensible attack on vetsed interests and short sighted beauraucracy is required. Fewer civil servants. Less red tape.
That's been promised by all Governments on whatever hue for the past 20 years.
Then we get quangoes like Transport 2000.
Nuff said....
madf
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"Supermarkets could do more to source locally but overseas food is often cheaper and the british consumer wants cheap above all other considerations. When shopping for food I do try and choose things from this country and those geographically closer if possible. I know waitrose seem to make a thing about UK sourced produce and have their own network of farms down south."
Its mostly due to the fact we want fruit and vegetables out of season. Think how much fuel is used providing us with strawberries 365 days a year.
In my day my dad would drag us to tiptree in july < mumble grumble bah humbug >
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I was at a seminar on Public Sector Food Procurement policy last week. There were suppliers in attendence who grew carrots, onions etc and those who manufactured food products. All of them were willing to set up supply chains to supply hospitals, schools etc with local produce. You reduce the road miles and get better quality produce.
Unfortunately public sector procurement policies and laws do not allow for local producers to be considered above national or European producers as this would be deemed anti competetive.
If an onion producer in Poland can provide the spec of onion in the quantities required and transport them a thousand miles for less than the guy who owns a farm next door to the school who will be using the onions the guy in Poland gets the contract. The bottom line price dictates who gets the contract and not the total cost.
Until the full cost in terms of damage to the environment by transporting onions 1,000 miles instead of 10 is costed and put in to the equation food miles will not reduce.
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I'm sure French schools buy Polish onions.. not!
madf
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to me the movement of onions is not the problem it is that people do not like to share transport. I personally am 25 and have just got my first car because my new job means I have to be in different places from week to week and can not get a bus. this is the only reason i bought the car. when i am in the office i ride my bike and get a shower at work which save both time and money as no bus fare and no gym membership needed.
If those of you who work in the same office all the time and live on a bus route that might at this time take 10 mins longer got the bus the bus would be quicker as there is less traffic and the earth would last abit longer. I think the this kind of use of a car should be taxed even more and the hauliers less.
tax the lazy and inconsiderate.
everybody likes to blame the gov but if you cant afford it then you dont get it simple
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