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Stupid cars - Andy
I found myself behind a 'car' that looked like a bread-van-with-windows today. In the back was a yellow warning sticker that said "tiny person on board". I felt like jumping out and applying my own sticker -"Then why such a bl**dy big car?"......
I've just remembered, it was a Berlingo (or something).
Re: Ugly and Stupid - ian (cape town)
I just had a look. They ARE bl**dy ugly, aren't they?
What is this cult of Ugliness creeping into the motor industry?
Re: Ugly and Stupid - THe Growler
And that Toyota with the sawn-off back that looks like a bread van...
Re: Ugly and Stupid - Moosh
Yaris estate ?
Re: Ugly and Stupid - Honest John
Citroen was very brave to introduce the Berlingo Multispace to the UK where status is far more important than practicality. That's why VAG held well back from launching Combis of the SEAT Inca and VW Caddy and why the Ford Courier Combi was such a dismal failure. But now, with twin side doors and rock bottom prices, utlilty vehicles are taking off. There's a Renault Kangoo Combi, Peugeot Partner Combi, FIAT Doblo Combi and maybe soon a Vauxhall Combo Combi. Huge van insurance premiums compared to car insurance premiums may see a lot more tradesmen switching from vans to combis.

Re: Ugly and Stupid - Michael Farmer
I am seriously considering a Berlingo as a replacement for my ancient Tipo. I test drove one a while ago and thought it an absolute hoot, comfortable and easy to drive. My three children loved it.
One question - I noticed a Peugeot Partner Combi which is built in the same factory and is basically the same vehicle with some minor standard feature differences and a more soberly coloured interior. Why are the equivalent Peugeot models put in higher insurance groups than the Citroens - Berlingo 1.4 grp 4, Partner 1.4 grp 5 - do Peugeot drivers have more accidents?
Re: Ugly and Stupid - KB
I looked at Andy's message with some interest. I sympathise with the irritation caused by the, somewhat pointless, 'Baby on Board' stickers. The observation that you don't deliberately drive in to/avoid driving in to - a car, depending on whether it's got a sticker or not, has been made before. However the apparent excessive size of the vehicle is what caught my eye. If it was a Berlingo, or maybe the Renault equivalent - Kangoo, then surely they aren't 'Bl**dy big' cars. The Berlingo is 4108mm and the Kangoo's 3995mm. Both are shorter than a Focus or Astra hatchback. Both are quite economical and both offer lots of interior space proportionate to the amont of roadspace occupied. Both are, naturally taller than the hatchbacks. Both are sound practical purchases for the transport of families/clutter/dogs/stuff to take to the tip etc. Both, as you say, are a bit ugly, as is the Yaris Verso, but that doesn't seem a good enough reason to jump out of the car and confront the owner for taking up too much roadspace.

I'm sure that Andy wasn't actually totally serious, and I'm not having a pop at him either (Christmas and all that) but it might serve to get one or two people to look at those "Combi's" in a new light, as I think they might just catch on. Don't forget the new Four wheel Drive, Common rail 1.9 diesel Kangoo Trekka with ABS, twin A/Bags, standard alloys and metallic paint, which comes out next Spring. It could be just what you wanted.............or not as the case may be!

Happy Christmas, KB
Re: Ugly and Stupid - David Millar
I'm with KB on this. Much as I like style, I also like paying as little as possible for as much as possible and the Kangoo Trekka diesel is one I plan to look at very closely, particularly if fifth is a nice tall gear. For anyone who ever thrashed a 2CV van or a Renault 4, the Kangoo/Berlingo etc are as close to modern equivalents you'll find without the crudeness of the Perodua. On my weekly visit, I did see an Alfa Sportwagon cutting a dash at the local council tip the other week but the owner was obviously so worried, she parked it away from all the other 'tipmobiles' in the area reserved for council staff parking. Practicality beats style for everyday use in the sub-£12K bracket.

Re: Ugly and Stupid - KB
PS. Andy, No prizes for guessing where you're " worst car of the year" nomination will go. :-)
Re: Ugly and Stupid - KB
Glad I'm not the only one misguided enough to look at these. If you're interested you can get more info. on the 4X4 Kangoo Trekka from the Product Manager at Renault Head Office. Reply to this post and I'll Email you his Number. The petrol one is due early new year at £1O995 and the diesel a month or two later at £11995 (or so I'm led to believe). Hopefully, they will be available for less in due course, either UK or Europe sourced. They are apparently not too bad in the rough(ish) and have increased ground clearance, yet are supposed to drive fairly normally on-road. The 4X4 system is electronically controlled and cuts in when required. The rest of the time it's mainly 2WD. I gather that the intention is to aim at the "practical/utility/value for money" end of the market, when compared to the 4X4 Scenic for example. Although the Trekka will, it seems, be well specified with the "Extras" that many want today ie. Electric/heated mirrors, Elec. windows, ABS, Air Bags etc. and as mentioned before, come with standard alloys and metallic. It sounds like quite a package. (Although Andy and Ian might not agree). :-)
Re: Ugly and Stupid - David Millar
Thanks again KB. I picked up the original French press launch info from the net a few months ago but it wasn't clear what rhd specs would be like. I still think it looks on paper ideal for us country folks who neither need nor can afford the big 4x4s but need a little extra security. My old VW Syncro had a part-time system with a viscous coupling to transfer drive when needed. It worked sufficiently quickly even in icy conditions to avoid skids when going moderately fast. The Renault system sounds to be the one developed by their partner Nissan for the likes of the X-Trail so its engineering provenance is sound. I also like the idea that it will be highly specified. I had great times and the occasional epic journey in an old Renault 4 and a 2CV van as well as the Panda 4x4 we bought new but I must be getting soft in noticing missing things like PAS and now aircon.

However, I suspect there will be relatively few sales of the Trekka in the UK unless Renault is pro-active in letting people know about it. This does mean that parts supply may be difficult if there is a lack of commonality with the standard vehicle in anything other than the 4WD system. The VWs were standard apart from additional running gear, increased ride height and beefier brake components (all mostly from within the VW parts bin) and some electrical additions. My current BX 4x4 has the additional running gear fitted to a transfer box and modified engine bottom end but also uses a different exhaust, some suspension components, extra electrical relays and a spacesaver tyre compared with standard BX estates. With only 300 or so rhd 4x4s imported that means many of these components are obtainable only through Citroen or a breaker. Fortunately, for a rare car 10 years old, Citroen do still have the exhausts, at least, on the shelf as I found out a fortnight ago. I hope Renault's spares supply policy is as good.

Re: Ugly and Stupid - Honest John
Thakns to KB for that info. I'll include it in the car by car.

Re: Ugly and Stupid - Kev
Far too ugly and far too big.

Its supposed to be a town car, how? The doors are about 6 foot long. Excellent for in narrow parking spaces.
The boots tiny
The interior is a mix of so many differant styles and ideas it looks a mess. I cannot stand middle dash dials. Come on guys, bit of cohesion please.
Thinking about it, does it look like one of those cheap Korean cars?
O, and prices start at £10k, £10k?! Thats Focus money!
Hmm, not my favourite car
P.S. Doesnt the Picasso look like an Orange?
Re: Ugly and Stupid - KB
David, You seem to have had plenty four wheel drive experience in vehicles other than the more usual 4X4's seen today. According to what I've read, it does share the Nissan 4X4 system. Use the Google search engine BUT type in Renault Kangoo TRAKKA not TREKKA, you'll find several pieces there. It has some Clio underpinnings, and the van version is very popular so the parts bin should be fairly accessible . I note the mention of Ilford in your address - Renault Ilford have/had a 2WD Authentique in their showroom, although it's not my favourite place. (I'm not that far away myself).
Regards, KB
Re: Stupid cars - Peter M.
Stupid names, too! Berlingo, Twingo (sounds like a chocolate bar..) perhaps they ought to name their next car the Dingo. And while I'm ranting, who thought of 'Boxster'? Anybody have any idea what it could mean?
Re: Stupid cars - KB
So you're not too impressed either Peter? That's 3 For.. and 3 Against. Can we have one more contributor to decide?

But I note that the "NO" lobby are mainly concerned with the looks of the things and haven't come up with any actual constructive criticism. Not that there's anything wrong with that - if you think they're ugly and have a silly name, then that's fair enough - nothing wrong with a rant or two. However, I still await Andy's response to my question about them being so "Bl**dy big"

Pete - Why not write to Renault and Porsche, then you'll know and will be able to come back to us with the definitive answer.

Regards, KB
Re: Stupid cars - Kev
Wasnt Boxster something about being a Roadster with a boxer engine or something?
They are scraping the barrel for names, i agree. Why cant we resurrect some old names?
Re: Stupid cars - Randolph Lee
I think one of the problems that they have with using real words for car names is the it may have sad results as far as sales is concerned in other parths of the world... Back when GM came up the name "NOVA" they wondered whiy it was selling so badly in South Amercia ... no one had twiged that NOVA or No Va ment "won't go" in Mexico
Re: Stupid cars - MPA
there was also the "Silver Mist" that almost got sold in Germany - nice one Rolls, a "Silver Manure" would have gone down really well... and I understand that "Pajero" is slang for "W*NK*R" is some Spanish markets so Mitsubishi seem to have got than one right.

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