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I didnt believe it when I read it, but its true! Wouldn't it be ironic if they swooped in and got it cheap from the recievers. I know it ain't gonna happen but, you never know... those sneaky germans could of had a plan all along.
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I more than likely am wrong?.But I thought BMW only bought the Mini name not rover?.Not realy covered the issue so probably am wrong? updates please
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Steve
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Not so sure these particular Germans (I mean the ones who run BMW) are so smart! They reputedly bought Rolls-Royce thinking they were buying a luxury car manufacturer but VW managed to get there first. VW's deal to buy Bentley included the RR factory at Crewe, all the current models and technology etc. I believe British Aerospace still control the rights to the name Rolls-Royce. Rolls-Royce Motors (1971) Ltd. were only licenced to use the name.
BMW also employed Chris Bangle!
That reminds me, BAE owned Rover once - the partnership was billed as ideal. If it had continued where would Rover be now?
Cheers, Sofa spud
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"That reminds me, BAE owned Rover once - the partnership was billed as ideal. If it had continued where would Rover be now?"
Indeed, they were given sweeteners to take it on board initially. Tell me Smithers, why do *you* think they later got rid? (smacked botty if you try the "not core business" argument)
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You've got your story over RR mixed up. BAe never owned them btw it was Vickers.
VW finally won the fight to buy Rolls Royce Motor company, including Bentley. But BMW by having a joint venture with Rolls Royce aero engines managed to buy the rights to the RR name for next to nothing. Nowhere near the hundres of millions VW payed.
Bernd Pischetsrieder so impressed the VW chairman, Ferdinand Piech, that when he was forced out at Bentley he ended up running SEAT. And then moved onto become VW chairman. How's that for being smart!
Also BMW did keep hold of all the names. MG-Rover had to pay to use the Rover name. BMW also have Riley, Wolsey etc.
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When I said Bernd Pischetsrieder was forced out at Bentley I ment BMW. It was the Rover saga that ended his time there.
Would have previewed the post but lost the first when I did!
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"BMW also employed Chris Bangle!"
Now ask yourself this. Why did BMW sell Rover (for a clue read today's papers)
If Mr B was such a faliure how come that they sell as many BMWs as they can make and they can afford to actually turn customers away?
Shame Rover didn't employ him.
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But how many "new" buyers did Bangle bring BMW?. Yes, every 5 and 7 series was sold, but wasn't that the case before Bangle?. Does anyone know a new BMW buyer who bought a car specifically because they thought the Bangle design was good?. I know, on this site anyway, the owners of new Bangle designed cars also had pre-Bangle BMWs and that *could* be put down to them just staying with the marque they know rather than buying the car because of its design.
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Having owned both a pre-Bangle and post-Bangle 5 I can agree that the earlier car was far prettier. But the problem for Rover is that they couldn't sell cars whoever designed them. Hardly true for BMW.
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I wouldn't have bought a pre-Bangle BMW. The Bangle 3 and 5 are in the running for my next car though. I like the more contemporary flame styling. It looks more up to date and distinctive than most others. The old 3 Series was a bit "nothing" in comparison.
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>>You've got your story over RR mixed up. BAe never owned them btw it was Vickers.
Er.. no I haven't!
Rolls-Royce went bankrupt in 1971, due largely to the cost of developing the RB211 aero engine, and was nationalised. The motor car division was sold (to a management buyout, I think) and became Rolls-Royce Motors (1971) Ltd. which was later bought by Vickers. Rolls-Royce aero engines became part of British Aerospace, and that is the company that still controlled the rights to the RR name at the time of the BMW takeover (maybe it still does now, not sure).
Cheers, SS
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Re Rolls-Royce:
I've just been searching the net - Rolls-Royce PLC, the aero engine manufacturer, held the rights to the name when BMW got involved.
I think Rolls-Royce Aero Engines were allied with BA when they were both publicly owned, but someone might be able to correct me on that.
Cheers, SS
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Hadn't realised BAe owned the RR Aero Engine company... apologies. Strangely no mention of that on:
www.rolls-royce.com/history/timeline/1960-1990.jsp
nor
www.rolls-royce.com/history/timeline/milestones.jsp
Had originally read your post (this being a motoring site) as a reference to the car company being ownded but BAe.
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Having re-read the thread about RR and BMW... they're still smart to have bought the RR name for a lot less than they were trying to buy the Rolls Royce Motor company for (including Bentley and the Pymm's Lane factory*). Twisted the arm of RR Aero engines as you'll know. Shame about the new RR cars though.
Once when at Bentley I saw an MG SV-R parked out front which I later learned was probably going to be taken to pieces to "examine it". Like they did for a DB9 there too!!!!
Rob
* Which is brilliant to get a tour of BTW... seeing those Bentley's being assembled and the leather being stitched etc. Spotted the four door Bentley as a mule driving round as a Phaeton etc when I was there for a few weeks.... can't say more! Well apart from VW being so pink fluffy diced off about losing RR name that ALL REFERENCES to RR removed and all RR historic cars sold off! Watch out for a Bentley with the W16 Quad-turbo engine too....
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That reminds me, BAE owned Rover once - the partnership was billed as ideal. If it had continued where would Rover be now?
Probably still making re-badged Hondas and still moderately successful.
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Interesting discussion on Bangle/bungle designed cars - hands up those who knew that the E46 coupe was also designed by Chris Bangle?
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Here you go: Community Trade Mark Registration No: 000143693. It can be looked up here:
oami.eu.int/CTMOnline/RequestManager/en_SearchBasi...e
Also interesting to see that BMW registered:
Rover 25
Rover 45
Rover 75
and also
Rover 35
Rover 55
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BMW may re-badge a couple of their models - the one series springs to mind.
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I belive that BMW retain the rights to the Triumph name, which arguably has some kudos (bikes, Dolomite, first 16v engine etc). A front wheel drive BMW with a Triumph name plate may have some mileage.
I wonder who has the rights to Vitesse?
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I think you'll find that Triumph Motorcyles own their own name.
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I think you'll find that Triumph Motorcyles own their own name.
Not for motor cars - BMW have that:
webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&...3
but Triumph do have their stylised word mark registered for motorcycles:
webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&...7
although (from a brief look) they need a good talking to about their portfolio from soneone who knows what they are talking about.
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"Not for motor cars - BMW have that"
I know that - I was responding to the below
"...which arguably has some kudos (bikes, Dolomite"..etc
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I wonder who has the rights to Vitesse?
Now that one does stand in the name of MG Rover:
webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&...3
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I beleive SAIC claim that they have the rights - what the fun as BMW get arm twisted into releasing the rights when their venutre in China gets threatened
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>>Indeed, they were given sweeteners to take it on board initially. Tell me Smithers, why do *you* think they later got rid? (smacked botty if you try the "not core business" argument)
Well, Mr.Burns, it's like this: BAe got Rover cheap and sold it at market value. All those claims about synergy - marriage of aviation quality and automotive production efficiency could have added up to something worthwhile but in the end it amounted to so much froth!
cheers, Sofa Spud
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Further correction / clarification re RR name. Today I was speaking with someone who was once in the management of Rolls-Royce Motors Ltd.
Rolls-Royce (1971) was actually the name given to the nationalised aero engine manufacturer. I was wrong in that it never amalgamated with BAe, although both were in government ownership at the same time. The aero engine manufacturer is now called Rolls-Royce PLC, and according to my 'contact' it still owns the Rolls-Royce name, which is licenced to BMW in the same way that BMW licenced the Rover name to Phoenix Group.
All this is a bit off topic but I had my facts slightly wrong earlier so I thought I'd better correct them!
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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Off topic but just wait until Bentley use the quad turbo W16 engine! Which is being considered for something... Doubt it's the Continental GT and derivatives but might be the Arnage. Sweet.
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according to my 'contact' it still owns the Rolls-Royce name, which is licenced to BMW in the same way that BMW licenced the Rover name to Phoenix Group.
Your contact seems to be mistaken:
webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&...9
The RR trademark is in the hands of Rolls-Royce Motor Cars Limited of Bracknell, which (according to Companies House)was incorporated in 2002.
This seems to be the BMW subsidiary.
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BMW bought the RR trademark for £40m whereas VW bought the RR Motor Company for £430m.
From that you'd think BMW got the better deal but I'd say Bentley is doing rather well. You should see how many Continental GT's that roll off the production line in Crewe per hour. I bet they've been selling more cars than Rover for a while.
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