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I'm not so sure. Having been assisting Mrs V learn to drive I've been in a car equipped with 'L' plates for the first time in over 20 years. What I've noticed is that 'L' plates seem to attract moronic behaviour rather than assuage it. Anyway, her test rapidly approaching' she's asked me whether I'd suggest she drive using 'P' plates if/when she passes. I don't think this is mandatory so my initial inclination is no on the basis that empathetic drivers seem very thin on the ground whereas those who'd seek to take advantage abound. Anyone got any views?
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Yep they are a fantastic idea. It gives you an idea that they may do something you are not expecting, It gives me the chance to give them alot more room and time. Roundabouts are a prime example, If she was infront of me and waiting for a gap then I would be aware that she may not go in the gaps I thought she would. As I said they are a great Idea,They should be law, not voluntary.
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One on the back for the initial period out on her own, the time when she will be a bit slow away and maybe prone to the odd stall. It does explain to other drivers the reason for this and most people are kind to newly qualified and learner drivers, though of course it is the idiots who remain in your memory.
I wouldn't bother with a front plate, by the time anyone notices it you've gone.
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My personal theory is that they are a waste of time - seem to be used by people who despite passing the test are still nervous and hesitant and use the P plates as a sort of comfort blanket.
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BH, EVERYONE who passes their test is nervous and hesitant - cast your mind back!
The odd few who who aren't are those you read about in the local paper - obotuaries, generally.
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I think they are a good idea. Not every driver on the road is a moron, and it does indicate that a new driver is at the wheel. I think the most difficult thing to come to terms with as a new driver is you suddenly have to learn to navigate on your own, no one is directing you. If the "P" plate gains you a little breathing room, it has done its job.
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I too think they are a good idea, particulary for use on Motorways where they have had no experience and little if any tuition, it gives us all the opportunity to allow them just that bit more room for unexpected manouvres, as it can be pretty scarey out there the first few times!
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A couple of people I know should be compelled to display them for life.
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If your driving is of a standard whereby you still need to display a warning to other motorists, you should not have passed your test.
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The driving test is no more than an assesment to show you are ready to continue learning to drive on your own. No matter how many lessons you have had or how much natural skill you posess those initial drives on your own are nerve racking experiences. Too many people forget just how green they were when they first qualified to drive, experience only comes with time. If P plates alert other drivers that you do not have the experience and confidence they have developed over many years, then they are worthwhile.
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I am always kind to P-plated cars -- good idea.
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If your driving is of a standard whereby you still need to display a warning to other motorists, you should not have passed your test.
This is my feeling exactly and i think it is partially the responsibility of instructors who teach the pupil to pass the test rather than how to drive.
I think that al large proportion of what is covered in the Pass Plus scheme should be inlcuded in the standard test to increase both driver ability and also their confidence.
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Yes! I take them as a warning, and a hint to keep clear, and pass and get away if opportunity offers.
(I favour dangling dollies and furry dice on a similar basis.)
Whether I count as an "empathetic" driver or not I'm not sure.
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As someone who (I hope) is "empathetic" towards learners and those showing a P plate i think they are a good idea. However, VM in the first post seems to think they attract "moronic" behaviour. How many of us have travelled as passengers with a "P" plate driver? Anyone else have experience of this? Is it generally the case? I'm not doubting what VM says, but if he is right then perhaps they are not such a good idea after all
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I've conducted quite a few pass plus courses where P plates have been used, and not encountered any problems from other drivers that I can recall. I would not doubt that there have been incidents where an agressive driver has attempted to intimidate an obviously inexperienced driver, as there is an unpleasant type of character about who will try and intimidate anyone they consider inferior, whether by type of car, age, gender etc. But i have always found that most motorists are tolerant towards anyone displaying plates, whether L or P.
Interestingly enough, I have never known a male to display P plates. It is always women who are prepared to own up to inexperience. Most men would rather die than admit they fell short of absolute perfection.
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Hmm - this hasn't made the decision any easier as the majority here feel they're great but I think that may be just a function of the superior contributor the BR is renowned for :)
I still think these plates are like a red rag to a bull for some people and although thgey're in the minority they pose more risk than any number of courteous drivers.
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I'll relate a couple of recent examples. Driving along a High Street in busy slow moving traffic. White van man is inches from our L plate and insists on tooting his horn each time the traffic in front edges forward and, rather than emulate his accelerate hard/brake hard strategy to coping with life, Mrs V pulls away gently and brakes gently with the flow of traffc. 50 yards on he then toots his horn as Mrs V. waits a few seconds for a pick-up driver ahead to pull into a space on our left rather than take WVM's preferred option of veering wildly into the other side of the road ignoring the traffic thereon and then have to veer sharp left and brake hard to avoid the queue of traffic just yards ahead. I don't know what this guy had had for lunch but whatever it was, it didn't agree with L plates and the fact that when he eventually passed us the tooting stopped indicates the learner in front was his problem.
Another day we hit a 2 lane roundabout. Mrs V took the left lane as she was intending to take the 2nd exit which was effectively straight ahead. BMW man came up behind us initially then moved over into the right hand lane next to us. Assuming a slow and hesitant start from Mrs V, he then pulled away fast and decided to turn hard left in front of us! The fact that Mrs V hadn't lived up to his low expectations only served to compound the problem he'd created as she was forced to veer right nearly hitting another car. Now I don't think he'd have done that if he hadn't seen she was a learner and believed she was probably going to hold him up at the junction.
I feel the same may apply to P plates and really don't feel comfortable with the thought of Mrs V being alone at the wheel and at the mercy of those who see L and P plate drivers as an impediment.
Of course courteous drivers will respect P plates but then they'd also respect and allow for non P plate drivers too so there's really little difference. It's the morons who are the problem and advertising vulnerability to them isn't a good idea is it - especially when you're a young female driver?
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The two drivers you have just described were just idiots. You have to put it into perspective. On those two trips you must have encountered tens?hundreds? of drivers who didn't behave like that. I still think a "P" plate is a good idea.
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You're quite right MJM and I thought I'd made that point that the idiots are few but as always it's often the actions of minorities (e.g. criminals) which disproportionately affect the rest. Having said that, we've come across lots of similar examples of that sort of appalling behaviour over the months and we don't exactly live in a dodgy area. The truth is that these morons are drawn to the vulnerable and the P plate simply serves to advertise the fact very nicely indeed. In an ideal world this wouldn't be the case but sadly it is.
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My 17-year old son asked me to buy him some a couple of months before he took his test, in preparation, as he felt that he would feel more comfortable. He subsequently passed first time in February (with only 5 minor faults), but since then only used them the first one or two times he drove on his own - a total of probably less than 30 minutes!
Personally I think they are a good idea, and would welcome them as compulsory, for all the reasons stated elsewhere. I also recognise the point that was made elsewhere regarding only capable drivers should be passing their tests. However, it must be recognised that you only start to really learn to cope with reality after the test - and it is frankly horrifying that you can go on a motorway, drive in fog/rain/snow, at night etc. without tuition or guidance after passing the basic competence test.
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I've seen shocking from all drivers regardless of how long ago test passed. Perhaps everyone should drive with a P plate.
Assume every motorist is going to do something silly in front of you. Always expect the worst. Just 'cos 99% of cars haven't P plates means they're good drivers.
Maybe we need OAP plates for drivers over 65 (i'd better duck for cover!)
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Maybe we need OAP plates for drivers over 65.......
I can only assume that either (a) you don't expect to reach 65 or (b) you have decided that you will stop driving on your 65th birthday, should you reach that age.
--
L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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>> Maybe we need OAP plates for drivers over 65....... I can only assume that either (a) you don't expect to reach 65 or (b) you have decided that you will stop driving on your 65th birthday, should you reach that age. --
I'm sure there are other possibilities. For instance (c) he wants everyone on the road to give him a really wide berth after he reaches 65...
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Well, I agree and disagree!
I agree that they are a good idea for those other motorists who will see them and say "ah, a new driver, best be cautious and allow extra room and time". For these people they have desired effect, and certain situations like at roundabouts and junctions can be made safer, and perhaps Mrs. V will see this and feel more confident and comfortable behind the wheel (if she isn't already)
However, being a member of the motoring public who did use these not so long ago, I would not recommend their use. After I passed my test, I did the burning of red 'L' plate?s ritual, and merrily slapped on some big green 'p's. However, I noticed that I seemed to become more of a target for 'abuse'. It was if the majority (not all) of people were waiting for me to make a mistake, and were all too quick and happy to inform me that I had done so, either through horn tooting or hand gestures. Even in times where I had made NO mistake at all.
I endured 2 months of 'p' plates, before binning them. Upon which, I could drive without any real problem. Wasn't tooted at for a long time after their removal, and even when I did genuinely make a mistake, or perhaps a little bit too hesitant, it was if no-one cared.
They are a good idea in principal, but otherwise there is little to recommend. It could be a northern thing. But you could try it, and if Mrs. V isn't happy, just remove them.
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.*********
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well it didn't like that now did it!
all i said was "[deleted]" in what was quite a long reply and it nukes the lot!
Blue Haddock, your posts do seem out of character tonight, I suggest you stay of the drink whilst you're in front of the keyboard ;)
Hugo - BR Moderator
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Now that sounds like a good idea to me. It's going to be her decision anyway but if she decides to try them we may just use them from time to time, compare what the reaction is and act accordingly.
I hope this doesn't sound sexist but I must say I'd worry far less about this if Mrs V was a burly bloke but then again if she were I probably wouldn't have married her :)
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I hope this doesn't sound sexist but I must say I'd worry far less about this if Mrs V was a burly bloke but then again if she were I probably wouldn't have married her :)
Probably?
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You could also look at it from the point of view that if she was involved in an accident due to someone being a plonker then by having the P plates she would have a better defence as it could be argued that the other drver was aware that she may do things slower or in a way that is unexpected!!!!
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Good point, but then if she were involved ina n accident would the other party be more inclined to blame her? She's admitting to being a novice, makes her an easy target for claims of her driving being the cause?
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Yep I'm sure they would be more inclined to blame her, but, In my expierences new drivers don't usually do anything wrong, just do things that we are not expecting, hence the accidents. If she had had an accident involving the BMW where he cut accross then it is clearly his fault.
I really struggle to see why people get so irate with learners/newbies, We all had to learn at some time, Just give them a little more room and time, they only ever stay in front for a short time before they turn off.
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I really struggle to see why people get so irate with learners/newbies, We all had to learn at some time, Just give them a little more room and time, they only ever stay in front for a short time before they turn off.
Amen to that.
For that matter, it applies to anyone you encounter on the road.
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