When you were stopped did the officer inform you that you would be reported for the offence? If that were the case, then I think they can take more than fourteen days to send you notification.
In this case I think it was a mobile speedvan my fellow Backroomer and not an Officer in person. had it been an Officer, then Chap here would have received a ticket etc. and be orocessed that way. or if a ticket hadn't been deemed suitable then a summons would be on it's way and these can take a MAXIMUM of six months to process.
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It would be worth your while logging onto pepipoo as they have some real experts on there and it is interesting reading, so if you do get a NIP, you understand the options available to you, one thing I have larnt from that site, that the law sometimes thinks they are above it......read the site if you do geta NIP before replying to it!
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If you were stopped by BiB then you would be reported using the verbal warning formula NOIP. No need for any paperwork in that respect.
I would, however gather that you believe you were "flashed" and not stopped. In this case SCP would make an enquiry of DVLA to find out who the registered keeper of the vehicle was. To that person then there is a requirement to send a written NOIP with S 172 request to name driver to registered keeper to be received within 14 days of the offence (excluding the day of the offence).
If this is not done then they cannot proceed with a speeding charge.
If there has been no movement in the recorded details of the Reg Keeper and which is yourself just before the offence then things are good for you.
You say 45 -50 in a 40 zone. FPN kicks in at 4 mph plus 2 i.e. 46mph. Bearing in mind speedos read fast then it certainly looks as if you have nothing to worry about.
DVD
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I'd just add that whilst DVD is correct, do read what he wrote carefully...
"to be received within 14 days of the offence " doen't mean that it has to be received, just that it should be sent so as to reasonably believe it would be received.
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Yeah thats how i understood it, posted within such a time that it should be expected to reach the recipient in "the normal course of the post".
What with the post these days, could you argue that they should post the NOIP a day earlier than they used to!?
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Hi DVD. Another informative post, good to see your still contributing to the backroom.
May I ask a quick related question? A friend of mine was pulled over by police for driving at a stupid speed on the motorway. The incident occured three months ago. He was stopped by police who informed him they had followed him for two junctions, about 15 miles, and believed he had been doing up to 125mph! He admitted he was speeding but did not admit to going at that speed- he doesn't think he went anywhere near as fast as that, although he may well have exceeded 100mph. As far as he is aware, he was not caught on camera, or with a speed gun- they did not show him any evidence they had.
He has heard nothing from the police thus far- how long can they leave it before they make contact? Six months? And what sort of punishment could he expect if convicted for doing more than 100mph?
Thanks.
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DVD will give you all the fancy stuff but yes it's 6 months.
Over ninety somthing I *think* is ban territory.
Like I said - DVD will be along soon with the exact wording.
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Adam
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Nearly 3 years ago I was "caught" by a mobile camera allegedly doing 98.7mph on the M56,NIP within 3 days and 3 points/£60 fine. I think the ban is over 100mph.
NIP was a printed folded form with a prepaid box on it, no postmark so no idea when plod put it in the post or even where it was posted from.
I think the use of these prepaid wrappers is intentional as there is no proof of posting date at all if they are issued this way.
as always
Mark
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Ben.
Plod will have detected the offence of speeding you mention either by a "follow" - keeping an even distance behind and relying on the speedo of the patrol car for the speed, OR more likely by Vascar which computes average speed over a set distance /time. As to the average speed the machine shows up and shown to the offender in Westwater v Milton 1980 held it was not a legal requirement but advised (likewise ACPO Code of Practice) an offender should be shown and allowed to view where possible.
The fact that this was not done doesn't give a get out.
Plod verbally reporting would have contained a verbal NOIP so no need for a written one.
ACPO Guide on prosecution of speed offences is that at 70 mph limit then at 79 mph to 96 mph a Fixed Penalty Notice can be given i.e. 60/3 points and matter over. But over 96mph then a Court appearance is the Order of the day when the Magistrates will look at the case and possibly impose a period of disqualification and substantial fine if three fiqures involved.
Just exactly what they will meter out is in the lap of the gods and what mitigation can be put forward. Check your local paper for similar cases.
If a ban is likely to cause hardship then there are grounds, that must be backed up by evidence that this will occur, for Their Worships not to invoke a ban.
Looks as if he should consider getting legal advice/representation.
As to limitations on prosecution then CPS have 6 months from offence coming to the notice of prosecutor to lay an Information (a notice to justice that an offence has been commited and pre issue of a summons). Once this has been laid then summons can be issued out of this time and served over 6 months.
DVD
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He was stopped by police who informed him...he had been doing up to 125mph
Generally speaking, at that sort of speed it can be argued is 'Dangerous Driving' and the driver can (and indeed normally is) arrested as the offence carries a Power of Arrest.
He admitted he was speeding but did not admit to going at that speed - he doesn't think he went anywhere near as fast as that, although he may well have exceeded 100mph.
So what did the Police Officer do/say? I assume that there was no ticket issued, but rather your friend was questioned (in the back of the Police vehicle?) and told that he would be 'reported' for the offence of excessive speeding?
As far as he is aware, he was not caught on camera, or with a speed gun
Most Traffic cars use the 'time and distance' method known as VASCAR - which is based on a follow of the target vehicle. There is also a 'real time' recording that occurs and recorded on a VHS tape in the Police Vehicle...so that would explain why he didn't see a Speed Camera/Trap.
- they did not show him any evidence they had.
But conversely, if the stretch of the Motorway is synonymous for speeding, then you will have a 'spotter' vehicle on one of the over-bridges, with a 'stopping vehicle' floating around to...stop the offender. Again, with some voer bridges that far up, he might not have seen them - so just because he didn't 'see' them they obviously 'saw him'. Hence the stop.
He has heard nothing from the police thus far - how long can they leave it before they make contact? Six months?
It all depends what happened at the time they stopped him, as they would have told him. but given he wasn't issued w/a ticket - I'm guessing he was summoned and yes, these can take up to six months to come full circle.
And what sort of punishment could he expect if convicted for doing more than 100mph?
>>
100+ usually results in a ban + upto six points w/fine - it all depends on the Magistrate really, and if they take a dim view on the offence. It's hard to generalise because it depends on the aggravating factors (like previaling road conditions, previous history of the road, has your friend got any points if so what for? more speeding? etc.) but I'd bet a ban wouldn't be far off.
If he is concerned, then he should have some paper work from the stop and contact the Force concerned.
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The third method (and far less technical) is that he was speeding in the "judgement" of two officers. Older members may recall I was stopped on the M4 by a police car which I didn't notice until I was passing it at over 100. He had not measured my speed but when they stopped me, they suggested I took the fixed penalty, otherwise it was my workd against theirs in court "and who do you think the court will believe?".
Subsequent inquiries here and elsewhere have confimed that I hadn't been bluffed, as I thought I might have been.
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The third method (and far less technical) is that he was speeding in the "judgement" of two officers.
No you are quite right, but you need two Officers to state that in their opinnion you were speeding.
This method is not used much because with the advent of technology, such as it is, the prescribed methods of speed calculation should be used, rather than relying on the judgement of two officers. When it comes to matters such as this, Traffic Officers especially, are considered 'expert witnesses' - so yes, it can be difficult to argue the toss aginst them, and if you do appeal a (police issued) ticket then you will rarely win since the onus is on you to prove otherwise.
I would be really surprised if this was the case though.
Please note that I am using the generic 'you' and do not refer directly to Smokie.
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Something else that came to mind, and perhaps helps explain this in another way is that:
When an Officer stops a driver of a vehicle for speeding, he usually says:
As I saw your vehicle enter/leave/approach/whatever I formed the opinnion that you were speeding. I then followed you for/as you approached my position/whatever used an approved speed device namely which confirmed to me that you were speeding. This is a zone and the device confirmed to me that your actual speed was
As can be seen there, an Officer must 'form the opinnion' that you were speeding and not blankly target you as a fishing trip to see if you were speeding. Thats why an Officer's word is given credence by the Courst (apart from the other reasons already given) because if the Officer didn't form an opinnion you were speeding, he can't then blitz you with the lazer or whatever. He just uses the device to confirm that you were speeding and by how much.
I apologise if I got too technical/off topic. Must be the time of night :)
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Hello again
Sorry I did not reply earlier, I have not had the chance this weekend. Thanks for all the replies, just to clarify I have not changed address,car etc so the police should have found the correct keeper. I was not stopped at the time, it was one of those transit vans with the rear windows facing you.
Thanks for the detailed and informative reply DVD, this is the law as i understood it.
Don't want to speak too soon, but it does look like i have got away with it. Pretty lucky I think as I am sure I exceeded 46mph. To be honest i think the whole experience has done me some good as recently I have been getting very impatient behind the wheel. I have since slowed down and changed my attitude somewhat.
Cheers
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