Auto Express has the 2005 Driver Power Survey in todays issue, haven't seen a copy yet but its the normal results, Japanese stuff come top and the French/Italians do the worst.
I'm sure lots of French car owning Back Roomer's will yet again tell us that surveys are wrong.
www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/55433/japanese_cars_lea...l
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"...five of the worst six models are made by French firms."
I used to reckon that the worst motors were built either on monday mornings (hung over), friday afternoons (wanna go home) or saturday mornings (just here for the overtime).
Seeing as how the french only do about 35 hours per week, I reckon this is when they build cars, so could go a long way to explaining things.
or are there special stickers to tell you when a car was built that dealers rip off as soon as they see me sauntering down the street?
WTM
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"...five of the worst six models are made by French firms."
Looks like the Italians are slipping a bit then...LOL!
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I used to reckon that the worst motors were built either on monday mornings (hung over), friday afternoons (wanna go home) or saturday mornings (just here for the overtime). Seeing as how the french only do about 35 hours per week, I reckon this is when they build cars, so could go a long way to explaining things.
There's no such thing as a "Friday afternoon car". Final assembly of cars is from components and sub-assemblies that have all been made at different times of the day, on different days of the week, in different factories, from different manufacturers, and probably in different countries. If a car has multiple reliability problems, then it is generally pure coincidence.
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Oh I think that there absolutely is a "Friday afternoon car". It might not be related to Fridays, it might be composed of bits made all over at all sorts of times, but there is no doubt that sometimes you get a car which is never going to be free of small faults which crop up for no apparant reason. - and to call it a FAC explains that as well as anything.
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I read somewhere that in France they see simplicity as reliability, so ironicly over there the Pug 106/Cit Saxo comes near the top of these surveys
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Do they factor in other factors like a large proportion of Japanese cars being bought by more mature drivers for example?
Therefore, they will not be subject to use that is likely to make them fail and/or higher mileages.
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"Do they factor in other factors like a large proportion of Japanese cars being bought by more mature drivers for example? "
And the statistical evidence for that is (apart from Honda:-)
I thought all Subaru drivers were under 25 with a reversed baseball cap:-)
madf
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I new someone would say that! Hence "proportion" used!
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probably why subaru come near abouts bottom of the reliability index!!
id of said that jap cars are mostly driven by the more mature person?
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Do they factor in other factors like a large proportion of Japanese cars being bought by more mature drivers for example? Therefore, they will not be subject to use that is likely to make them fail and/or higher mileages.
I really love this stuff! According to many BR's:
French cars are obviously bought by aspiring Paddy Hopkirks who drive high mileages, thrash them to hell and back, thus making them fail. That's why they do badly in these surveys.
German cars, OTOH, are actually incredibly reliable - but they are purchased and driven by nit-picking sophisticates who have exceptionally high standards and will take the car back to the dealer for the tiniest problem. That's why they don't do all that well in reliability surveys.
Japanese cars, however, are driven by OAP's with very low expections. In fact they're thankful if they can travel the 2 miles to the supermarket every Friday morning without breaking down (the only time the car comes out of the garage). That's why Japanese cars do so well in the surveys.
My own theory (as someone who works in the industry) is that Japanese cars do well in reliability surveys because the Japanese VM's employ proportionately far more engineers and carry out far more product testing than European manufacturers. The product is very thoroughly designed and well tested before it gets to market. European and US manufacturers tend to employ more accounts than engineers.
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Its a good argument! :)
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With German cars though this nit-picking sophisticate felt so picky taking a new BMW back with a blown engine and a Merc AMG back with a blown gearbox....perhaps I should have been driving a French car?!
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Any survey that takes to account prises of owners as reliable data is bound to give funny effects:
Rover 75 becomes "Best ride" of 2004 while Honda Jazz apparently offers "Best practicality" on the market.
Doesn't it strike you as strange - the ugly duckling super mini is apparently what every estate and MPV should look up to in terms of practicality while wildly unpopular barge that wobbles along British retirement villages with distinctive body roll of a fishtank on casters suddenly beats all competition to the title of smooth ride.
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Any survey that takes to account prises of owners as reliable data is bound to give funny effects: Rover 75 becomes "Best ride" of 2004 while Honda Jazz apparently offers "Best practicality" on the market. Doesn't it strike you as strange - the ugly duckling super mini is apparently what every estate and MPV should look up to in terms of practicality while wildly unpopular barge that wobbles along British retirement villages with distinctive body roll of a fishtank on casters suddenly beats all competition to the title of smooth ride.
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Totally disagree about your view of the Jazz as ugly, I bought one and think they look good in the right colour (red or black) and with the alloys, fog lights etc of the sport). Can't think of any other superminis that are more attractive in the looks dept. The Jazz is a great little car.
As far as deriding the views of owners as giving strange results in surveys, I would take the opposite view as these are the people who live with the car on a daily basis and find out all the pros and cons. Who would you prefer to listen to? A journalist who has driven the car for one day or even worse the manufacturer???!!
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Certainly wouldnt trust the views of anyone who thinks that the Jazz is the best looking supermini in any colour
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Certainly wouldnt trust the views of anyone who thinks that the Jazz is the best looking supermini in any colour
Very constructive comment.
And your valued opinion is?
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Very clever HJ! you know and I know that the Modus is not better looking than the Jazz.
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Very clever HJ! you know and I know that the Modus is not better looking than the Jazz.
There both better looking than the new Pug 1007, the ugly stick seems to have hit the Peugeot design centre with the recent models.
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With Skoda and Rover doing well, it supports the theory that it's not what car it is, it's the type of owner...
It seems that now these cars are old, dowdy and characterless and driven by disinterested people who just want it to be shiny and get from A to B, they are doing better in the survey, like Japanese ones have done for ages.
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