That's a fair point Pezzer. You like your 120d because it does the job *you* want it to do. If for most of the time you don't need the space, the other failings are less of a problem set against the driving experience.
Glad you enjoy it. I just wish that the 1-series could have been designed to have more universal appeal. Still, I suppose that life would be boring if someone designed the perfect car - there would be much less for us to chew over on this forum!
Has anyone out there got the perfect car - i.e. no criticisms at all? I'll say this for my A4 - I've fewer things to complain about than any other car I've had in 35 years. Maybe this is a subject for another thread altogether - moderators please feel free to move it.
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Interesting, I am on my third and last A4. I still have a 2000 B5 in the UK and I have had both the later ones in Spain - we had a fleet deal with VAG.
Each generation of A4 is worse than the previous one in terms of build quality and space, and each is less reliable than the on that came before - based on a statistical sample of one of each. They get uglier (but that is subjective) and the interiors get "nicer" to look at but more difficult to live with.
The car I have had the least complaints about was a humble Ford Focus that I ran as a private car for 2 1/2 years, tremendous car, no faults in 35k miles and it was my fault that I bought one with the wrong engine.
BTW, what is that smell that affects 1 series BMWs and some new Audi A3s?
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Good point Pezzer,
I am a very long term fan of BMW but they have lost it of late (there I've said it !). In my heart of heart I know that my current five isn't quite as "complete" as my old shape five, the build quality is just a little less thorough, and the design of the car itself is a little less eye candyish. You could love the old 5 for its shape alone...
"dont find the build quality that bad, remember you are not buying a 30k car here"
But surely this is the whole point, their entry level cars should be the equal of their upper range - if not slightly better - they should have picked up on cutting edge stuff they put in the 7 and 5 and got it right in the 1 and latterly the 3.
We talked about this tonight at home, what I felt was summed up by the rear wash wipe system. Looking at the 3 Compact's system, that looks as if it was engineered rather than designed. The one on the 1 looks as if it was picked up froma parts bin.
No explainig SWMBO's leap from the 1 to the Disco, what she says it that the Disco (finally) "looks right" - yet she was talking about the Golf tonight.....She knows what she likes in a car, which is why she has taken to my g reg 3..
I drove a new Focus last week (hired) and felt that the build quality in that is/was better than the 1.
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Has anyone out there got the perfect car
I had it it was the the last 530d. Perfect looks, perfect engine,
perfect handling/ride and peerless buld quality.
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I actuallychose the 120 over a 320cd for several reasons. Firstly it had a better engine than the old 3 series and more importantly the deal through my fleet company was so much better.
Of course it will be a better deal - the 1 series is a cheaper car so the hire costs will be lower.
I dont find the build quality that bad, remember you are not buying a 30k car here.
I hadn't even read as low as PU's comments and my thoughts were exactly the same - whether it's an 18k 1 series or a 50k 7 series the build quality should be the same
>>I guess I sit squarely in the target market for this, my last >>car was a MkIV Golf Gti,
I guess you are in the target market as the mkIV golf GTi was another car that was bought on the strength of it's name/heritage. This is exactly the same reason as people bought the Merc A class - no where near as good as the rest of the range, in fact the elk test showed how badly it handled and yet people still bought it because it was the first rung on the ladder of merc ownership.
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>>>Of course it will be a better deal - the 1 series is a cheaper >>>car so the hire costs will be lower.
About two grand difference in my case ! I think the actual difference here was to do with residual value and probably BMW wanting to give the lease complany a good deal early doors.
>>I hadn't even read as low as PU's comments and my thoughts were >>exactly the same - whether it's an 18k 1 series or a 50k 7 series >>the build quality should be the same
Was thinking about the quality of the materials to be fair - my fault.
>>I guess you are in the target market as the mkIV golf GTi was another car that was bought on the strength of it's name/heritage.
That sounds a bit like an insult but it was a really good car which I enjoyed and again was bought taking into consideration fleet purchase conditions/emmisions etc. Millions of others made the same purchase decision too judging by how many I saw on the road.
I think it worth stating that I wouldnt have paid my own money for the 1 series, but that wasnt my challenge !
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PU,
I don't have any issue against the build quality of the E60/E61 ('new') 5 Series, it's just that I preferred the pre-Bangle designs, both inside and out.
In addition, the seats in the E39 ('old') 5 Series fitted me perfectly, the new ones do not. Maybe I'm built like Quasimodo, I don't know.
Oz (as was)
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I agree Oz, my new five's aura isn't quite as "solid" as the old one,I love it though...I put it down t all this re-cyclable material malarki. It's amusing to think that the dash of your 25 to 30 k car either was or will be a parking bollard !
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Avant said:
I just wish that the 1-series could have been designed to have more universal appeal.
Then there wouldn't be space in the market for Mini, 3 Series (in all it's guises) X3 etc. :-)
Has anyone out there got the perfect car - i.e. no criticisms at all?
I reckon the X5 (3.0d for Europe) would have to be pretty close to an 'all-round' capable car (everyone's definition of 'perfect' will be different. Pity the tide is turning against them - apparently it doesn't sell very well in the US because the Americans think it's too small, so the next version is going to be much bigger!!
I'll say this for my A4 - I've fewer things to complain about than any other car I've had in 35 years.
I really wanted an A4 but not to have addressed the lack of rear seat leg-room on the latest model is just ridiculous.
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As a BMW enthusiast, I have to concede that under Bangle`s direction, their designs IMHO have lost the plot and although I enjoy my present E46 320d SE Touring, I will not be buying a Bangled mangled replacement when I come to change and seriously considering the forthcoming RAV4 (in early 2006) with the 175 bhp 2.2 diesel engine.
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I loved the old 5 series and the old 7 too but I think the new ones have that little bit different.
Call me strange - I kind of like them. (Except for the 1).
--
Adam
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... and call me old-fashioned, but I was never really won over by the buying argument "Just think how readily recycled your car will be sir!" :-(
Oz (as was)
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I agree with Adam, I like the Bangle BMWs. I didn't when they first came out, but now the 5-Series especially looks very modern as does the new 3-Series. I don't like the 7-Series so much and the 1 only works in a few colours. The Z4 is great, the X3 hideous. X5 is also good. I would buy a BMW now, whereas before I wouldn't have - hated the old 3-series but the old 5 was nice. I don't think the Bangle BMWs will date as quickly as the earlier BMs have but when they do they will date with a bump.
As for build quality, I haven't had any complaints with my Audi A3 so far, the build quailty of the cabin and no squeaks or rattles, if there is one I know I've left a pen in the glove box again. Nor have any knobs fittings or fixings come loose. Only one fault so far which was a loose cable on the battery that was quickly fixed.
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SWMBO saw a Civic this afternoon, next stop the Honda dealer ?
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From a confirmed (but frustrated) Beemerphile, questions arise, e.g.:
(1) In the 1 Series, BMW have integrated the rear screen wash-wipe function into one unit. Technically very neat, but unfortunately, not effective. It doesn't work anywhere near as well as the rear screen wash in SWMBO's Renault Clio which uses the conventional technique of spraying water on to the screen, then wiping it off. Please! BMW, stop trying to be super clever.
(2) IMHO the same applies to 'active steering' in the new 5 Series whereby the steering ratio varies according to speed (less turns of the wheel e.g. when parking). I accept it may suit some, or that you may get used to it, but I found it highly disconcerting.
(Rant ends)
Oz (as was)
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OZ,
You left out the (almost) Vectra style indicator stalks, a very smart technical solution to something !
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The Audi A3, A4, A6 and A8 also have one touch indicators, where a single touch gives you three winks, or you can lock the indicator conventionally for junctons and the like. I love the one touch function, very useful for overtaking. The only thing it prevents you doing is the wink left wink right wink left thing to say thanks to a lorry - instead I now just use the hazards. The Touran also has these indicators, so it's clearly the way things are going.
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Interesting to read this thread, everywhere from the MINI to a Golf to a Disco3 to a Civic to a 120... You just can't predict the fancies of a lady! :-)
My 2p would be for the new Disco, and I hate 4x4s. It just has something about it that sets it apart from so much else on the road today.
No sure if you need the practicality of four seats (just about in the MINI), but I really liked the Z4 when I took it out. The one I had was solid enough too.
Good luck!
-- Lee Having a Fabialous time.
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Pugugly, your wife sounds like a lady with an open mind. Perhaps, unlike mine, she'll look at a Fabia VRS, which is what we needed as a second car.
That said, SWMBO very much likes her Civic type S, but make aure you can live with the appalling turning circle.
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Thanks HJ, she is off down the Honda garage at the weekend. Skoda -
It actually did crop up in the discussion about the 1. In as much as her mother has a Fabia and SWMBO comented how much better screwed together it felt....there is also a Skoda garage down the road....
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