They may be, but to advertise a seven day no quibble return policy and then to sack staff who use it to secure a sale is wrong, as is telling a customer that you will call the police if they try to return a car to you under the policy.
That is just plain bad.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Agreed, Espada.
If any used car dealership employed the business that were alleged in the BBC's programme last night, that would be indefensible.
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I took out, none too carefully, all the irrelevant stuff. I am sure something of value probably got caught up in the deletion, for which I apologise.
If there is no valid debate, then'll I'll simply lock the thread later.
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I watched the whole program following on from Watchdog the other night, and I honestly thought it was disgusting. The same company that owns Yes Car Credit also owns the Money Lenders that knocked on peoples doors (on the same program last night) and lend money at up to 500% interest. One worker claimed he lent £47,000 in under a week in the few weeks before Xmas. The main company that owns both, recently posted a rise in profits. These people are selling cars and lending money to this country's most poorest people, who cannot get loans or HP anywhere else and are simply exploiting them, and making them even poorer. I do not know how they sleep at night.
Regards Chris7
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It seems to me that there is a need for people like YCC to enable people to get cars when they do not have a good enough credit rating to get money from more "normal" sources however a number of issues worried me:
1) Poor car preparation. In this day and age, I am surprised they can get away with it. I thought there was a rule that all dealers had to offer a 3 month minimum warranty. If they are making good £££ out of the finance why spoil the deal for "a happeth of tar"...to use an old phrase.
2) The supreme dullness of the clients in signing up to agreements and cars that are unsuitable for their circumstances. When you can buy a "runner" for a few hundred quid, why would someone on a tight budget sign up for further credit and not check out the car including its price thoroughly? Bizarre.
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In response to the above;
1) I agree, it's absolutely shoddy that the basic check list was being ticked but not checked. The mechanic who was with the journalist managed to get on of his colleagues to admit that he just ticked the boxes, there were things they should have checked but didn't even have the equipment to do it.
The were charging about £2k on average ABOVE the retail guide after buying it from auction. This is before that interest rate of 20% plus the insurances on the finance etc. This figure mentioned by the journo is not exaggerated in my experience.
2) You're right - the old saying about fools and their money, apart from these people have no money and in many cases cannot borrow from anyone else, or have not researched the market at all.The problam is that many of the former are desparate for a decent car for whatever reason and are IMO vulnerable to any scam.
My thoughts from the programme;
1) It raised a good case against the company but it failed to close the main case IMO. There were far too few conclusions reached. Also, it focused on one branch, whereas Yes Car Credit has several across the country. I would have been more impressed to see a case made against a good sample of the branches accross the country, say 7 or 8. I was not conviced beyond reasonable doubt that the practices at that depot were indicative of the company as a whole.
2) On the other hand I felt that sharp practices were rife among would be colleagues of the journalist. A culture where those practices were certainly not stemmed, perhaps encouraged by some management existed, For example that chap who pretended to be a seniour underwiter and proceed to tell a reluctant punter that not taking up credit would affect her credit rating.
3) I would perhaps conceed that the depot in question had issues that YCC should be embarresed of.
Hugo
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like it or not (and I don't), such firms are probably doing nothing illegal - the law doesn't legislate for moral matters; and I guess such activities provide a service for those who only want to know how much a loan costs them each Fri when the collector knocks, rather than the total extortionate amounts they repay over extended periods of time.
If they are sending out potentially lethal cars, as alleged, then Trading Standards must surely be on the case by now - if they weren't already, before prog was broadcast.
As for ability to sleep, these commission agents wouldn't be in such work if they had consciences.
Buyer-Borrower Beware.
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No one is forced to borrow money for a car or anything else. If you consider the lenders terms to be unfair don't borrow from them. The banks are often castigated for offering loans to inadequate people, but it is not their job to be moral guardians of their customers.
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Taking it to its logical conclusion and forgeting about poor vulnerable people.....what about rich vulnerable people who have bought VW Phaetons or Daimler Sovereigns and lost stacks?
Dealers need money to stay in business and all of us regardless of our social or financial standing are harvested for our cash. Tragically motor dealers seem to know exactly what buttons to press to make us leave our brains at the door.
However check out this story for brutal honesty. A friend of mine is an Aston salesman and he was just clinching a deal on a V8 Coupe at £150K, when the thorny subject of depreciation cropped up. His answer to the question? "Sir, you see that car (pointing to the V8)? When that car goes through the showroom door you will lose 50K." The guy still bought the car!
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Forgot....How many of us can look at our own work places and honestly say that no racist, inappropriate or greedy comments are made?
How many of us follow the correct procedure all the time?
I am not defending YCC, but at the end of the day we all have mortgages to pay and this demands that we turn a profit for our firms. If there are mugs out there that you can tap for extortionate profits, then thats life.
I disagree with skimping on safety and not fulfilling your own promises though.
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I think it's fair to say that people in any profession will seize upon an opportunity to make money or gain promotion, pay increase etc within the bounds of their profession.
I think you have to start to question why they are being allowed to get away with it in this case, or whether there is too much emphasis on targets and not enough on honesty.
My main gripe is that the salesmen were being trained into a coulture where anything goes to make a sale. Being economical with the truth is perhaps one thing ie answering the questions as asked and no more, but telling outright lies is IMO another - I refer to that chap who pretended to be an underwriter and then effectively threatened the client with a bad credit rating.
Hugo
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I watched the program. I thought it made several valid points.
But I also thought:
1. Many of the practises are prevalent in other branches of the motor trade as shown by stories here.
2. Any one who pays over £2k in excess of market prices to buy as car has not done his/her homework. You cannot and should not attempt to save people from their own stoopidity.
3. As far as money lending to the poor. No-one else will lend at normal rates due to the high default rates (which we heard about as the salesman entered a lift).
At the end of the day we live in a capitalist society. There are laws to defend people . If companies obey those laws then any losses they cause their customers (overcharging/shoddy workmanship) have remedies either through not buying or Sale of Goods Act.
I thought it was a poor program (and their salesman was pathetic. As for their professional mechanic being upset at the poor standards? Well I have seen as bad in many other garages.
So no surprise there.
If there was real evidence of wrong doing, there are legal remedies..or customers going elsewhere.
madf
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You have to appreciate YCC business model, its diffrent to Car dealers.
Firstly its primarily a credit business, working in the high risk area (those refused credit elsewhere), hence operating in
the high interest market.
The car becomes almost incidental. When you go to a YCC branch you are firstly offered a loan, and only then shown a limited selection of cars that will match what they will sell you. Its all low cost cars due to the nature of the credit avialble to the chosen market. Customer care is not high in such situations.
You cant blame the customers, Pond Life is perhaps unkind, but it is a market of low earners who dont have the option of getting good cars at good prices due to a poor credit record.
Unfortunatley such clientelle should be protected more than the rest of us but.......
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effectively threatened the client with a badcredit rating.
I believe there was an element of truth in what he said - I have heard before that all enquiries on an individual are noted on their record and that a high number can trigger refusals.
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In my opinion YCC are wrong to supply unchecked cars and to nit honour the 7 day money back BUT would you like to lend money to somebody who wants a car they cant afford a widescreen telly and bang and olf stereo etc. These people are adults who dont need to spend this money. This society is I WANT I WANT etc. I was brought up to save and buy what you can afford. I earn 20k but run a Ka that cost 1k and is brilliant. I screw it and it costs 200 quid to service. I hate the moaning about poor old stupid people.
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BUT would you like to lend money to somebody who wants a car they cant afford a widescreen telly and bang and olf stereo etc. These people are adults who dont need to spend this money. This society is I WANT I WANT etc. I was brought up to save and buy what you can afford. I earn 20k but run a Ka that cost 1k and is brilliant. I screw it and it costs 200 quid to service. I hate the moaning about poor old stupid people.
andrewmarc - i think you have hit the nail on the head here.
the reason these "poor" people do not care what the interest rate they pay is because it is usually not thier hard owned money that they are spending.
contrary to someone saying we live in a capitalist country.
the money thes "poor" people spend is of course that which the taxpayer generously gives them in handouts in our "socialist" country.
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"the reason these "poor" people do not care what the interest rate they pay is because it is usually not thier hard owned money that they are spending.
contrary to someone saying we live in a capitalist country.
the money thes "poor" people spend is of course that which the taxpayer generously gives them in handouts in our "socialist" country."
Hmmm
I suppose this includes the poor self employed bloke who has been out of work for a year due to an illness, had his house repossesed, two kids and a wife to feed, has an offer of a job but cant get there by public transport so needs a car to start earning money?
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Hmmm I suppose this includes the poor self employed bloke who has been out of work for a year due to an illness, had his house repossesed, two kids and a wife to feed, has an offer of a job but cant get there by public transport so needs a car to start earning money?
well said RF a friend of mine bought a car from YCC and the car was good at a reasonable price yes the interest was expensive but then he knew that it got him back into a regular income and he settled the finance early and traded the car a bit later for something which he paid cash for, as a finance company they serve a purpose, as a car retailer...well i wouldn't buy from them but i dont have to...cheers...keo.
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maybe yes, but this will be the exception rather than the rule.
But even so there are plenty of cars in my local rag for less than £500 that will last him for a good few months. And to be honest if he cant raise £500 then YCC aren't going to be interested anyway ...
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>>But even so there are plenty of cars in my local rag for less than £500 that will last him for a good few months.
I`m sure that is the case.But saying that would you buy a car that will only last a few months.£500 is a lot to lose if all goes wrong ie repair costs exceed car value.I know several that have fallen into that trap..YCC at least give someone a chance to get a decent motor.Forgetting of course recent developments.But can happen at any place?.Not advertised.
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Steve
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YCC at least give someone a chance to get a decent motor.
Therein lies the nub of the issue.
He could save or have a good credit rating and buy a decent car more cheaply.
If he wants a decent car without either he will pay through the nose for it.
Personally it makes no difference to me, not now.
If it did matter again I would take the risk on a cheaper car, expensive ones are usually more expensive to repair, insure and run.
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"He could save or have a good credit rating and buy a decent car more cheaply"
Strangely enough, borrowing (even at places like YCC) will give him a good credit rating. Saving wont.
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andrewmarc - i think you have hit the nail on the head here. the reason these "poor" people do not care what the interest rate they pay is because it is usually not thier hard owned money that they are spending. contrary to someone saying we live in a capitalist country. the money thes "poor" people spend is of course that which the taxpayer generously gives them in handouts in our "socialist" country.
A strange and rather rabid rant (quite apart from the rather singular spelling and grammar!).
Unfortunately rather a lot of people in this country are not terribly well off. Even very intelligent people with degrees and a strong work ethic can end up down on their luck through no fault of their own. Just because someone is not well off doesn't mean that they should be fair game to be ripped off or sold a poorly serviced car.
One of these 'car credit' companies opened near where I live (not 'YES', it was a different company). All they seem to be interested in is high-pressure selling of credit (the car is secondary). Most of the cars are pretty tatty and sold at anything up to 2x normal retail.
I have sold cheap cars in the past. Sure, you'll get some rogues and scoundrels, but most customers were reasonable people who just wanted a cheap and reliable car to get to work and run the kids about in. It wasn't the 'poor' customers we had problems with...my alarm bell always rang if we had a middle-aged, middle-class woman walk in. They always expected a cheap 8-year old car to be like a new car - and then would go to the CAB and TS if the cassette player didn't work 100% (I kid you not).
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Do you want me to remove that Dalglish ? Its not your normal style.
For the rest of you, do be a little careful about taking a righteous and just standpoint as you peer down on people.
I have been poor. Very poor. Its no fun. And whilst some of it might have been my fault, some of it wasn't. People need help out of these situations, not to beaten down further.
No doubt some people will take the loan for various nefarious reasons, but some will do it because they know no better and some will do it because they have no choice. - and if you're very lucky, you'll never find out which you would be. But if you are ever in that situation, do remember what you wrote here.
High interest rates in a high risk market are justifiable. (roll-over loans are dodgy in any market).
However, pressured selling, lying, misrepresentation, dangerous vehicles, etc. etc. is all illegal and should be stopped.
And all people, rich or poor, should be protectd from them.
Now, as to the question of whether or not YCC is guilty of those - I have no idea and I'd need a lot more than the comments from a BBC documentary - I've had personal experience of how accurate those can be.
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first, re aprilia's comment on my grammar/spelling: aprilia, do not judge a book by its cover.
second, i have made no comment on the yes car credit company at all.
third, mark(rlbs)-Do you want me to remove that Dalglish ? Its not your normal style.
agreed my views not very clearly expressed, as they were cryptic as well as a little sarcastic, and kept short due to their non-motoring content.
however, let me briefly clarify. i was responding to comments by others as to the alleged stupidy or naivetty or whatever of so called "poor" people who pay allegedly extortionate interest rates.
in reply, i was expounding my theory (and indirectly concurring with andrewmarc) that perhaps the reason some of these "poor" or "stupid" or "pondlife" people do not care about the interest rates could be that these people do not think of it as their own money.
had they been brought up like andrewmarc, they would possibly take more care as to where and how they spend their money.
the terms poor, stupid, pondlife are not mine but refer to expressions by other contributors to this thread.
as a general observation, i find that the people who most complain about being down on their luck with money for whatever reason - they seem to have no problem funding expensive drinking or smoking or gambling habits.
i could reply to renault family and others who have suggested reasons why rich or poor people, or those without jobs, or other sad personal circumstances find that buying a car is an absolute essential for life.
but the replies would be getting away from motoring. so i will desist.
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If people are stupid enough to buy a scrubbed-up wreck with 497% APR loan, then should they really be on the road?
Maybe it's good thet they will be priced off the road after a short time. Some people aren't bright enough to drive, them more they dumb things dow so that everyone can, the more problems it causes for the rest of us.
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And where did that happen ?
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Well said. Driving is not a god-given right.
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I think that a lot of people who are unlucky enough to live on a limited income and who need to borrow money are more concerned about the amount of the weekly/monthly payments that the APR. They reckon they can manage £28 a week to repay a loan and the fact that is a high APR doesn't enter into it.
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Absolute rubbish!
I have worked in the credit industry for 25 years. Only if there were a large number of applications made in s short space of time in the very recent past would this affect your chances of gaining a credit approval. Please not that I say "affect your chances" and NOT definitively cause a refusal.
Basically an underwriter would only take those apps into account if it indicated a potential intent such as to line up many credit facilities and take them out in a short space of time and disappear.
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