Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Hugo {P}
Growler has inspired me.

OK, so what is the best ordinary production car of all time in terms of:

1) Value for Money
2) Practicality
3) Ease of maintenance
4) Original thinking
Any other categories you can think of?

No supercars, sports, expensive 4x4, jags or other prestige, were just looking for cars that anyone could have bought.

My nominations are:
1) Later Skodas, built better than VWs and cheaper
2) For this category alone, the Fiat Regata Weekend. The most practical estate car in its time. A truely dreadful car in lots of other respects but it was practical - I owned one. 3) Escorts I and II
4) Peugeot 504 7 seaters - These were the first cars to truely cater for families larger than 5. Until then 2 cars or a minibus would have been needed for large families.
On the same thinking - Espace- met the same need but with impreoved legroom.

H
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Imagos
Yes i'd agree with the mk1 Escort. But my vote goes to 1982 Ford Sierra, There's a model here to suit all. . As you've probably read in other threads i'm a big fan.. I grew up with this car!
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Manatee
Morris Minor, without a shadow of doubt.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - NowWheels
Renault 5. Original design, comfortable ride, long-lasting.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - codefarm
Without a doubt Vauxhall Cavalier V6. Very fast, understated, great handling, large boot, comfortable, fairly economical, bullet proof reliability
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Imagos
i wouldn't call a V6 value for money, or ease of maintanence?
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - El Hacko
wonderful engine, but car neither had the brakes nor the suspension to cope with the performance ..
Moggy Minor for me.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - PhilW
"but car neither had the brakes nor the suspension to cope with the performance .."

Bit like the Moggy then - exceppt that the Moggy didn't have the performance either!!

Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - mountainkat
can only be one car:

Toyota Corolla
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - blue_haddock
It must be doing something right to sell 25 million or so!
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Pugugly {P}
Landie.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Wilco {P}
Original Mini?
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - keo-the-dog
Original Mini?

have to agree with that , and the original vw beetle...cheers...keo.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Alyn Beattie
Landie.
Don't think road going tractors can be classed as cars. Still love them though.


Getting very close to buying a pile of scrap that once was a Series 1. Think the farmer is fed up with me turning up at regular intervals. Price is nearly reasonable now.
--
Alyn Beattie

I\'m sane, it\'s the rest of the world that\'s mad.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Avant
Renault led the way in most of the categories mentioned by Hugo - the 4, the 5, the Espace and the Scenic: others followed.

Practicality and value for money were thought more important than style for its own sake. What a pity that since Le Sueur or whatever his name is took over, the stylist has won every time. Renaults are less practical and more difficult to see out of; and some of the new gadgets are gadgets for their own sake.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Robin Reliant
The Mk 1 Cortina. A decent sized family car at an affordable price, cheap to run and reliable, easy to maintain.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Malcolm_L
VW Beetle - not without it's faults but affordable, easy to maintain and reliable.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Imagos
It always amazes me in surveys like this the VW Beetle is always highly rated.

Have you guys actually driven one.?

Limited practically, very slow, very very noisy, ugly, nasty to drive, no luxuries, rubbish heater, rubbish engine, virtually no rear visibility, i could go on and on...
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Robin Reliant
Never driven one imagos, but been a passenger and fully agree with you. Bit like a C list celebrety, famous for being famous with no real pdigree of it's own.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Jim M
Not a Citroen fan and never will be but the 2 CV is quite an achievementfor it's time. Landrover for just lasting and lasting.
Espace for families, original Mustang for seeing a market and completly dominating it until the me too's caught up. Sorry for choosing 4 but stupid brain is on go slow....must be the sun.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Garethj
Judged by the standards of the 40s, 60s and 60s, the Beetle was better than most of the competition on quality and design for the price.

For practicality, I think a 2CV just pips it to the post because of the better interior space.

I'd give an honourable mention to the Golf Mk1 or Mk2 as well, probably VWs finest hour for 20 years and they're still playing on it now
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - hetherton
I agree with you the vw beetle is reliable, because I have a 1956 oval window vw beetle. There is one known advantage that the vw beetle has over the rest of the ordinary cars talked about here, and that is it most certainly will start in severe cold winter weathers which I never heard anyone say about any other ordinary car. My beetle is still a 6 - volt may not have best lights or wipers but its good enough for me because the wipers and lights are surprisingly good for 6 - volt, and besides, changing it to 12 - volt would only decrease its value I think anyway. My beetle is all original and there is no shortage of places in England to get parts for them.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Tomo
VW Beetle and yes, I have driven them; I was first in one in 1948 and compared with then current British small cars it was rocket science; remember it started as a pre-war design for a small, Peoples', car. And they were reliable long before Toyota; they always started. OK, you had to lift off for corners in the wet and the lights could have been better.

It is misleading to compare now antique specimens with younger cars developed decades later.


Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - commerdriver
Have to go for the Cortina in its various guises, drove various ones and ran one for over 100k miles (the first car I did this in).

Can't see how the Mini fits, great car though it was/is in many ways. Ease of maintenance was never a strong point, I remember having to remove the grille to change the fanbelt on one in my youth.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - keo-the-dog
Can't see how the Mini fits, great car though it was/is
in many ways. Ease of maintenance was never a strong point,
I remember having to remove the grille to change the fanbelt
on one in my youth.

the fact remains you remember doing it, some new cars you would be taking to main dealer for such "simple" maintenance . the mini was way ahead of it's time and influenced many designs at the time and since. the beetle was also very simple to maintain i agrre with others it's ugly but in it's day wasn't that bad and very reliable...cheers...keo.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - merlin
Mk2 Golf. Had a Mk2 Driver for 170k miles. Great car and still praised on www.peachorlemon.co.uk Very different story for later Golfs though :(
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - bimmer-driver
surprised no-ones mentioned the Focus. Does everything so well
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Stuartli
I had a Fiat Regata 85 for several years - better than I would have thought, as was its follow up, a 1.4 Miafiori, but the Regata brakes were awful across the range.

Not a contender in this case though estate wise - that I feel goes to the very popular, highly practical Ford Granada range of the later 1980s. Not familiar with running costs though.

As for others, I go with the Morris Minor (first car I owned) and original Mini (passed my test in a Cooper version), Ford Focus, Austin/Morris 1100 and Golf Mk1, to name but a few.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Hugo {P}
I had a Fiat Regata 85 for several years -


So THAT'S who had the other one then!;)

I had the estate version of that car. It was the ltd edition Mare, pronounced Marae.

However it did have packhorse appeal so perhaps the british ponounciation was correct.

It sported in addition to the standard 85c spec, electric front windows, central locking and electric blue and black striped upholstry that wouldn't have looked out of place in a 70s retro trekkies joint!

It also rusted like the preverbial. When I had a bump in it I did a deal with the bodyshop to repair rather than replace the front bumper - it only had a 4" split and put the saving towards restoring the bodywork. He was a classic car specialist so excessive rust was his speciality!

One rear door was replaced by one from a scrappy which itself had to have £80 worth of work done to it. I have to say it made a real difference to the car though. It must have been the best example of the Regata on british roads, which wasn't hard.

H
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Stuartli
>>It also rusted like the preverbial. >>

I know this thread goes back a long time but I had my Regata 85S for three years and, like the 1.4 Miafiori that preceded it and which prompted the Regata purchase as a replacement, rust was conspicuous by its absence.

What's more I live on the North West coastline and any tendency for a vehicle to rust would be accelerated by the salty air.

Fiat largely killed its (deserved) rust image when it linked up with Saab in 1979 to take steps to substantially improve its rustproofing procedures during vehicle manufacture.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Thommo
Escort MK1.

Cheap to buy and run. Could be (and frequently was) maintained by those with little knowledge and less tools. Handled like a dream (for its time). Bulletproof reliability and loads of cheap spares in the breakers yards.

The transport of many a working man and penniless student.

Had a purple (I think they all were) Mexico when I was 19. Cost me most of my salary to pay the HP but boy was I proud of that car!
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - bradgate
The Focus has to be a contender.

Affordable, practical, good looking, reliable and, with the right engine, a pleasure to drive.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - dilbert
Judged on originality, it has to be the Mini. For all-round greatness, Peugeot 205.

Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Alfafan {P}
All the Fords fall down on Condition 4, original thinking.

My vote goes to the Renault 16. First 5 door hatchback, 6 seater car with the front bench seat and column change, versatile seating arrangements, superbly comfortable. If I could find one in good nick, I'd have one like a shot.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - alex

VW Beetle without a doubt.

I agree 100% with Tomo's posting on this one
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - L'escargot
All the Fords fall down on Condition 4, original thinking.


Key-operated bonnet lock on Focus is original thinking ........... isn't it?
--
L\'escargot.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Kevin
>VW Beetle..they always started..

Agree with the VW Beetle but 'always started'?

Pull the other one, until the 1970's (?) they had 6v electrics. On a cold damp morning they had enough juice to supply either the starter motor or the sparkplugs but not both at the same time.

Kevin...
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Ford Dagenham
Hello.

I liked the Cortina and the Sierra 1982 range and also the Morris Minor.
--
(iam not a mechanic)

Martin Winters
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Lucian Deville
Not sure - but does the 3 wheeled Robin Reliant qualfy??

From the boasts of people that have owned these beasts and appeared on tv - they say you don't need a full licence - that saves money

road tax like a bikes - that saves money

only 3 tyres to worry about - that saves money

uses little petrol - saves money

hardly any extras in there to go wrong - that saves money

if in an accident, repair with filler - that saves money.

anyone agree with me??
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Robin Reliant
As a former tripod jockey myself I would be tempted to say you had a point, if ever there had been such a car as a "Robin Reliant". They never existed, in the same way as Cortina Fords on Victor Vauxhalls didn't.

You've been reading too many tabloids, Lucian!
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Lucian Deville
Reliant Robin then - what's yuor point?
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Imagos
The point is they are a total joke and not worthy of the title best ordinary car.

get real..
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Lucian Deville
That is your opinion and i would not be seen in one even if all of you lot gave me a million pounds. however, ask the people on the bus stop that can't afford a car and waiting for public bus to come along in 40 mins, just to see it pass them by as its full of chavs. i think we both have a valid point here.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Imagos
if in an accident, repair with filler - that saves money.


you wouldn't need to, you'd be dead in one of these deathtraps.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Lucian Deville
but that could happen in a MB/BM/etc.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Imagos
But the difference is they are not made of plastic, have 4 wheels, and have SRS etc.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Robin Reliant
Why are they a deathtrap? If that is the case, then what about motorcycles, bicycles and even a pair of shoes?

Many of the cars mentioned on here, such as the Mini and the Morris Minor wern't exactly noted for their 5 star Encap ratings. And don't knock the performance, they weren't Ferraris but they could show a standard mini a clean pair of heels away from the lights.

Anyway, I liked mine.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Imagos
Why are they a deathtrap? If that is the case, then
what about motorcycles, bicycles and even a pair of shoes?



Yep.. there all deathtraps.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Stuartli
>>only 3 tyres to worry about - that saves money>>

If the Reliant had had two wheels at the front instead of only one it would probably have gained even more admirers as it would almost certainly been more stable.

The only time I drove one I was terrified it would tip over if I went round a bend at more than 10mph - the following day I read about a Derbyshire Reliant owner who led pursuing police vehicles a merry dance at up to 70mph around the Peak District and into Sheffield and marvelled at his skills....
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - David Horn
Pull the other one, until the 1970's (?) they had 6v electrics.
On a cold damp morning they had enough juice to supply either the
starter motor or the sparkplugs but not both at the same time.


Sparkplugs won't work on 6v anyway...
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Dynamic Dave
Sparkplugs won't work on 6v anyway...


All my old mopeds had 6 volt electrics, and the sparkplugs worked fine on them.

Getting back to cars, most, if not all had a ballast wire that was used to reduce the voltage to the coil. When you first started the car, 12 volts was initially fed to the coil to give it a helping hand, but once running the voltage dropped back down to somewhere between 6 or 8 volts.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Ford Dagenham
Hello.

How did i drive any of the above cars i have mentioned if the spark plugs did not work.?
--
(iam not a mechanic)

Martin Winters
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - NowWheels
I vote the 2CV.
HJ


I'm a bit surprised by HJ's choice (didn't think it'd be his cup-of-tea), but it's a pretty persuasive one. Few vehicles have fulfilled their designed brief so well, or kept on filling it for so long.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - keo-the-dog
>VW Beetle..they always started..
Agree with the VW Beetle but 'always started'?
Pull the other one, until the 1970's (?) they had 6v
electrics. On a cold damp morning they had enough juice to
supply either the starter motor or the sparkplugs but not both
at the same time.
Kevin...

think the beetle changed to 12 volts in 1968 however the best beetle ever made was pre 68 1500cc ie a 6volt model these were so good that the engine is still sought after and given 12volt conversion a very easy job on a beetle...cheers...keo.
12 - volt beetle - hetherton
1967 was the year when the last 6 - volt beetles rolled of the production lines and when the first 12 - volt models came into production. I have a book with almost every year of beetle in it, and I have a lovely very original 1956 6 - volt oval window beetle. I have to say the wipers and lights are suprisingly good for 6 - volt and it starts rather easily. Pretty good horn too.
12 - volt beetle - Dynamic Dave
Pretty good horn too.


Did they not all sound like Herbie's then?
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Buster Cambelt
The original Focus for me.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - peterb
The original Focus for me.


My thinking exactly.

Affordable, reliable, reasonable maintenance costs and.... handles as well as any car costing less than £30,000.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Lucian Deville
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - ndbw
I vote for the VW Beetle,I hired one from Bourne End Motors in 1954 and was so impressed I then owned three in a row,as mentioned above remember the date,they had independant suspension all round,a very efficient heater with outlets for rear passengers,and windscreen washers,they were way ahead in there time,the engine was oversquare and at 3600revs the piston speed was under 2500Ft./Min a yardstick said by Dr.Porche to give long live to engines.

ndbw
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Imagos
beetle? Worlds best ordinary car of all time?

cobblers.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - keo-the-dog
beetle? Worlds best ordinary car of all time?
cobblers.

not disrespecting your opinion but care to elaborate on the cobblers, i understand most arguments against them they are ugly some people think they are beautiful, i dont, and compared to modern cars are horrible to drive useless heaters but remember the beetle is a very old design older than the mini and most if not all the others mentioned here. it was way ahead of it's time and love them or hate them 20 million people bought them and unlike the corolla beetles all looked the same how many variations on the corolla to make 25 million sales. the concept of the beetle is in my opinion what makes it one of the best cars ever made. although i would still prefer a mustang...cheers...keo.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - mjm
I suppose that you have to define ordinary, really. If part of the original question is to be answered, ie ease of maintainance, then anything with electronics has to be eliminated, because most local/back street garages are unlikely to have diagnostic kit to suit everything.

I personally don't think there is a best ordinary car of all time. We can't tell, anyway, we haven't had all time yet.

If I had to nominate or be shot, I suppose it would be the Morris 1000. It was excellent at nothing, terrible at nothing, indeed I found it to be mediocre at everything. It was simple and easy to maintain and reliable.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - frazerjp
Is it that Bourne end motors in Bucks ndbw?
--
Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - ndbw
Hi frazerjp
Yes indeed it was Bourne end Bucks,at the time I was living at Sidcup and driving a 1930 Lea Francis,they were most kind put the L/F in a lock up for me while I had the VW for the weekend,I could not afford a new VW so bought a 1947 model imported by a serviceman.big mistake but with spares from Monaco Motors of Kensington who had loads of spares I learnt a lot very quickly,next came a 1956 Standard Model ie crash gear box and cable brakes.purchased from Bernie Eccleston when he had a used car lot at Bexleyheath.I then purchased a 1955 Deluxe Model Syncro Box and Hydraulic brakes from VW at St Johns Wood,there was in my opinion little to touch them,if there is anyone out there who read Motorsport when J.Bodey was the editor they will recall how enthusiastic he was about them.

ndbw
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Hugo {P}
Love them or hate them, the Beetle was a product of original thinking. One could say the Beetle did for Germany what the Land Rover did for the UK.

The Beetle remained popular when other models were coming and going, as did the Mini, the 2CV etc. So yes it's easy to knock them when you're driving a 1975 vintage - the non enthusiasts would compare them with the likes of the MK2 Escort. If that's you then the car would not have been your cup of tea.

There was a Reliant 'Robin' with 4 wheels. It was called the Reliant Kitten. It looked very much like the Robin but IIRC never sold as well and there are very few about.

H
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - frazerjp
Its still a trading cars in this present day you know? mainly more modern cars thou! :-)
--
Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - NowWheels
The original Focus for me.


Perahps the best of its current breed, but evolutionary rather than revolutionary, as demonstrated by its six-year shelf-life. In twenty year's time, will it really stand out over its contemporaries?
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Sofa Spud
In its time the VW Golf Mark 1? Previous 5 door hatches had been aesthetically challenged, then along came the neat, crisp Golf and its copycat rival the Talbot Horizon. Worlds apart in quality though!!!!

Cheers, Sofa Spud
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - defender
morris minor in all it different forms,traveller,saloon,convertible,pick up and van .had them all exept the convertible ,always reliable with little or no problems as long as you remembered to grease the front swivels or a front wheel sometimes fell off but for its size quite surprising what it could do
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Robin Reliant
I'm almost certain the Minor DID come in a convertable version.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Robin Reliant
Sorry defender, misread your post.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Hugo {P}
Defender,

We had the convertible. My dad ran it as a short journey car when he had to drive to the station for his daily commute to the smoke from Andover. Reg 165 EAA IIRC. It was to be a temporary car whilst our main car (Citroen DS 2300 estate) was in for bodywork repairs. In those days you could wait months for the parts to come in - and we did, 4 months to be precise! Problem is he couldn't use the Renault 5 as my mother wanted that for her transport.

He bought it for £90 privately and sold it to a garage for a wopping £115!

That Citroen must surely be a contender for the best ordinary car. IT had so many innovations that worked appaulingly but were perfected for later citroens!

H
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - keo-the-dog
i think the thing with citroens, well old ones is it wasn't one model in particular but was spread across a few years and several models and many new citroens are still at the cutting edge of new technology , in my opinion ...cheers...keo.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Hugo {P}
.......Reg 165 EAA IIRC.......

I remeber now, it was 175 EAA!

H
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - L'escargot
The original Focus for me.


And for me too.
--
L\'escargot.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Micky
Mini

1) Value for Money? Ford thought it cost more to make than it sold for.
2) Practicality? 4 seats (or more if you were a student), ease of parking, a huge leap forward in handling
3) Ease of maintenance? Yes and no. Perhaps cost of maintenance is a better measure.
4) Original thinking? Nothing gets close. Get a bloomin' move on! //tinyurl.com/jfgvm (copy and paste into browser)

Just don't crash in one without a cage and a full harness.

And a Mini with an R1 in the boot is a real hoot!!
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Cardew
I would go for the VW Beetle.

However I really am surprised that nobody has gone for the Mk1 Golf GTi. I drove an early 1600 model in Germany soon after they came out and just couldn't believe the performance.

Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - Victorbox
Mk2 or Mk3 Cavalier - especially the Mk3 Cavalier.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - P.Mason {P}
My nomination would be the Renault 4. I bought one new (my only new car..K reg.) and ran it for 130K miles with little trouble.
I was into hang-gliding at the time, and the 4 took me over ploughed fields, up mountainsides etc. Neatest and most convenient gear change ever, just hook your little finger around the lever and you could change gear with both hands on the wheel! Superbly comfortable seats, and amazing soft ride. I was sorry to see it go.( I wouldn't like to have had a serious shunt in it, though..)

P.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - local yokel
Austin 7 was the first car for the masses in the UK. Much modified, supercharged, raced etc, and used by the Swallow Car Company (later Jaguar) as a platform. Also made under license in Japan.

My Dad had a Ruby as his daily driver in the late 60s.
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - DP
I would probably also go with the Ford Sierra. Like most ubiquitous cars, you forget just how influential it was. The styling forced a radical change in thinking which despite the initial ridicule, genuinely influenced almost every car designer in the 80's and beyond. The bodywork was designed with genuine attention to aerodynamic efficiency, and the interior with ergonomic efficiency (the layout was one of the first to group all the controls into logical "zones"). Although creaky and cheap looking by modern standards, even sitting in a Sierra today still gives a lovely cockpit feel, with no controls buried out of sight or scattered at random on the dash. Everything falls to hand and is grouped logically.

Then of course there were the RS versions, which were the first to combine sub 6 second 0-60 acceleration and 140+ top speeds with 5 useable seats and a big boot. The estates made brilliant, tough workhorses (my parents ran a 1984 2.0 GL estate to 205,000 miles, 100,000 of them towing a horsebox, and it never faltered). In short, whether you needed a motorway cruiser, family hack, towing machine or supercar baiting missile, there was a model in the range to suit. And every model would take a family of four with a fortnight's luggage in utter comfort.

Of course, things have moved on, but the Sierra was to my mind the first "modern" family car as we know it today.

Cheers
DP
Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - ukbeefy
To me there are some everlasting "good designs" many of which date from the 1960s and 1970s

Renault 16 - as someone said amazingly comfortable compared to modern cars, very spacious and distinct ride handling approach that is not available anymore (ie comfort first)

Alfasud - a very neat shape and alot of genuine fun for the common man

Peugeot 504 - again distinctive design married to good tried and tested mechanicals plus excellent ride.

Mercedes 123 (the ones built in the late 70s to early 80s) they look good and have lasted for ever.



Worlds best ordinary car of all time? - scott1s
I would suggest any of the Japanese saloons of the 70's and 80's. ie Corolla, Sunny, Bluebird, Carina etc etc etc.
Proved to the world that you could bring good equipment levels and reliablility to the masses for reasonable money. Then when they started makeing Bluebirds in the UK proved to the UK that reliable cars could be made - well - over here too.