In my tedious search for a CHEAP tow car for our 1300kg caravan, I'm looking for opinions on the Rover 800 series.
Anyone know anything about these cars??
They are certainly cheap, they have the weight. I'm thinking about the Vitesse hatch (200bhp turbo)which seems to cost anything from £500 upwards!
Comments on longetivity and repair costs welcomed. Only doing about 3000 miles PA max with this so fuel costs not an issue. Don't want to keep breaking down though and power is important.
Many thanks in advance for any help.................
Regards
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I think reliability would be an issue here. See the car by car breakdown to your < left <
By the way matstro have you spelt your name correctly? isn't it spelt maestro? Being very pedantic in the tradition of the backroom.
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There have been a couple of very tidy examples on e-bay recently. Including a streched one - very much a limo and not the chavish American type.
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seem great VFM to me. One on ebay at £500 reserve met. 52K mostly family owned.
I'm really looking for some comment that says "we had one and despite what people say, it hardly ever went wrong" lol
Re. user name, no its correct, first 3 letters of first and surname!
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Hi
Have no first hand experience but my Dad used to run 800's as his company car for years. His first one was a 1990 model which he kept for 100k and 3 yrs, 2nd a 1993 model, new shape, which he did 120K in 3 yrs and lastly a 1995 (facelifted model) which did 130K in 2.5 yrs. In all that time and miles he never had one breakdown or reliability issue.
All were 820's so had the Rover engine and not the Honda V6..think the 2 litre engines are the same only turbocharged in the Vitesse.
Seem to recall that tyres were a little on the expensive side but being a company car he got the most expensive fitted anyway!!
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We had 7 of these on the company fleet and had very few problems with them at all. Just make sure you don't wind up with one of Broomlea's dads cars;-)
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Nice motor very cheap reliable.I had 2 827 sli/827si hatch.I ran the first for 2 years.Being saloon was not or did not carry the luggage.Bought the hatchback/manual.no problems.I actualy miss it.it was only redundancy from job that forced the sale
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Steve
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Matstro i apologise about your name i should have realised.
Drove many 800's around 1998 and i can say never had problem with them. They drove ok, felt good inside albeit a little dated and they looked ok especially with the large vitesse alloy wheels.
But that was 7 years ago and as i never owned one the reliabilty of them was never an issue. All i can say is tread very carefully. Take heed of the advice in the CBC breakdown and if you are determind to buy one, get it checked out thoroughley especially the engine.
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I've got one of the last 827's a 96 fastback with the Honda 2.7 v6 and I've dona a bit of towing with it .It's a manual and as far as I'm concerned it is a most underated car.Have had 3 previous 800's running up to 100000 miles with no problems.They are great m-way cars.I fancied the bigger engine for towing but the 2.0 litre engine is powerful enough.I did'nt have a lot of choice when buying -my only criteria,having decided on an 827 was for a manual-I didn't want an auto in case the g/box would be up and down the ratios when towing.The Honda engine is bomb-proof-remember the cops used them as pursuit cars and from what I read they were pretty happy with them.Then Honda fell out with Rover who eventually produced their own KV6 .Early ones iirc had head gasket problems.
If I were you I'd try and pick up a manual 827 as late as poss.You will not be disappointed-and boy do they make a lovely V6 growl
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Only thing I would advise you check for.V6`s 2.7 did. if not serviced on time suffered intermitent tappet noise.It did only come and go.but when inspecting one.Make sure engine is started FROM cold.Let it run on tickover untill hot.If you dont hear any tappet noise its ok.Beware if you do.Its expensive to repair
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Steve
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I don't know how tall you are (obviously ) but I am not excessively so, 6ft , I'm not sure what that is in litres .
Anyway, in time I have had 2 800s , a Vitesse and an 827 sli .
On the Vitesse there wasnt enough legroom at the drivers seat , despite the overall size of the car and I had to have the rails moved back .
On the 827sli there was a motor under the seat which stopped it moving backto its fullest and when I made a fuss about it Rover paid for the seat to be replaced with a manual mechanism, which did the trick
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I had 3 800s as company cars: from 1994 to 1998
2x 820
1x 825diesel
Coomon problems:
electric windows: switches fail on early ones.. and keep failing due to v poor design.
Rear disks can stick due to little use: watch rust on disks.
Cooling system on all models is marginal on hot 30C days when used with aircon: all mine nearly boiled under those conditions.
Rear silencer boxes rusted easily...
On 820 petrol cylinder head gaskets go around 70k: a design fault. Evidence - oil leaks from gasket, then water then bang if you let it go that far.
I had one clutch centre plate disintegrate after 40k miles.. in my garage.
The petrol models flood if just driven out of garage to wash and then driven back again.
Handling is rolly polly when new: dampers and struts wear with hard use and make it worse.
They rust underneath.
The dashboards creak annoyingly.Whatever you do.
We had a company Vitesse which only did 45k in 3 years due to its appalling electronic unreliability. Just as well: if driven hard in the wet it was awfull.. torque steer wheelspin..
I has a rash of bulb failure son one.
In my experience a badly built badly designed piece of garbage which was unreliable. When they ran they were economical and comfortable: unless it was hot in a traffic jam. Then you switched off the aircon or boiled..
And if you plan to drive on twisty roads? Don't bother. Like a barge..
They were bad new: what they are like after 6-8 years I shudder to think of. A Xantia is much better bet imo
madf
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id get an audi 100 or a safrane or an xm or an omega or a v6 vectra but i wouldnt have a rover,
i dont like garages
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Wasn't it Aprilia who pointed out that these beasts destroy their own ABS sensors? A particulary clever combination of mazak bracket & steel housing causing galvanic corossion; I think replacements are 100 quid plus each.
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I had an 820e fastback for a couple of years. It was 4 years old with about 30k on the clock when I got it and was my wife's boss's company car had been looked after and properly serviced. Initially I liked it a lot HOWEVER it became the most unreliable car I've ever owned. Numerous faults and repairs - some minor, many more serious and recurring (e.g. head gasket, heater matrix, silencer, tailgate struts, dashboard, speedo sensor etc. etc.). I got rid of it for peanuts when it started issuing clouds of blue smoke which I was told was down to valve wear and would cost many more £££'s to fix. I replaced it with a Volvo 940se turbo estate which was 5 years old when I got it but had doene c.85k. That was the most reliable car I ever had and swallowed up the miles as well as it did the luggage. Lots of town driving and very little TLC but it went on and on and is still going strong even now owned by a family friend. The only significant failure in 5 years was the brake servo. I hope my new Mazda will perform as well and be as reliable!
I'd seriously check out the 940 series - imo they're as bomb proof as the 800 was brittle.
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My parents always had these Volvos and they were good workhorses. You might also consider a Granada or Scorpio, they are good and tough as well. Also rear wheel drive which is good for towing.
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I knew a guy who had a Rover 827 V6 for a few years. He abused it appallingly; never serviced it, drove it flat out, used the boot to haul builders materials, once filled it with diesel by mistake. It never broke down, but before he got rid of it at about 120,000 miles the engine sounded _really_ weird.
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I've had two. The first being an 827 Sterling with the Honda engine. The tappet noise that was mentioned is on the exhaust valves. Honda used a strange mix of hydraulic and mechanical tappets only on the exhaust. The inlets are hydraulic only. Anyway, this car was fine and the 4 speed switchable auto box can be locked to the first 3 gears only. This is sport mode but good for towing. I used to pull a twin axle car trailer with maximum towing weight without any probs.
My second was a Vitesse turbo. It never overheated with the aircon on. A lot of the electrical probs are down to the Central Control Unit under the dash. This controls the windows, sunroof, heated screen timer etc. These can be replaced from a breaker for a tenner.
These are cracking underated cars. I bet backroomers can come up with poor unreliable examples of any make of car if prompted.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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Amazing how opinions and experiences differ!
I guess the main factor is the selling price of these vehicles. At below £1000 its either a bargain or a load of trouble, sounds like a bit of pot luck to me. Hmmmmm, now undecided erring on giving them a miss mainly cos of more than one mention of running hot which isn't good if towing a caravan in the height of summer.
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Well I did say I liked the car at first and to be fair it was only the recurrent problems which put me off. Room, ride, performance etc. were all good IMO. It's true that you'll always find someone who's owned a lemon but nearly all the problems I had with mine were well known to the range and far from isolated examples (e.g.head gasket, valves, heater control, ecu etc.). Luckily I had a Rover mechanic friend at the time who did most of the work and could almost read my mind whenever I rang him with a problem. At least he was able to mitigate some of the costs. One additional and very annoying problem was the way in which the ECU had no battery back-up and needed restting by the dealer each time the battery was disconnected! Don't know if they sorted this on later models though.
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volvoman, just reread this thread and saw your comments on the Volvo 940. Good idea except the missus wouldn't be seen dead in one!! But a T5, thats another matter. And dearer.............
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I've had three Honda engined 827s and they've all been fabulous.I wouldn't go for a 2 litre because of head gasket problems but the Honda engineered cars are bulletproof.They do suffer from silly electrical gremlins especially the windows but these problems are not usually difficult to fix.
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Well there's no accounting for taste... :)
Speaking as someone with zero brand loyalty I find it easy to choose a car based on my needs as opposed to the badge. I've never owned 2 cars of the same marque and had no burning desire to own a Volvo until I obtained mine via my brother on the demise of my Rover. If you want a tough, reliable, practical, well built car at a reasonable price I can't imagine there are many better examples and many spares etc. can be obtained cheaply via Eurocarparts. If you want more performance (although my 2.0 turbo had plenty for me) you could always go for a 960 (see HJ's CBCB) which apparently is a real wolf in sheep's clothing whilst retaining most of the other benefits of the 940. Unlike with the Rover these cars eat up the miles with no problem. My old one's on 150k now and still on the same clutch!
Just for info. 2 of my 3 brothers currently own Volvo's - a 940 Wentworth and an 850 T5. Both are exceptional cars and the T5 goes like poop through a goose!
Yep - I've got good memories of being a Volvo owner.
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I've driven a couple of 820's in the last year and value for money they are great. There was a V reg one at auction last week that only made about £600.
Check for head gasket leaks, any oil leaking down the side of the engine?
Dashboard tops unstick, usually above the steering wheel. Rover used the wrong glue!
Check Electric windows/mirrors/sunroof all work before buying.
If you don't mind the vague steering and handling and the dated looks, they are a fantastic bargain pound for pound.
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Dashboard tops unstick, usually above the steering wheel. Rover used the wrong glue!
Yes i've seen this a lot, looks like sun has warped it. Didn't know about the wrong glue though. Very difficult to fix i'd say?
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The dash can be fixed easily using impact adhesive and about 6 pairs of Mole grips. The steering wheel and instrument cluster have to be removed first but the fix is good and cheap.
The head gasket probs were resolved by a modified head gasket available from Rover. Don't use pattern ones.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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At the end of the day, I guess it's up to how much you are prepared to pay. The 800 series depreciates like falling masonry and ISTR (poss from HJ?) that the last few stood in fields for 18 months+ before being registered.
I have seen V reg 825's with 130k up for £1500 in AT (Auto Trader), so I'd take this as a realistic guide. I (private person, with sad affinity for ex-BL products) wouldn't pay more than £1500-1700 for one of the latest ones, the earlier ones are worth errr....notvery much.
What was it I read somewhere about them, something like "Never pay what they ask" which sort of sums it up.
Mind you, I remember being in an M reg one about 4 years ago coming back from LHR when the companys' usual taxi firm (E class users) couldn't help us and I sat down in the passenger seat and almost went through the floor. I looked across at the odometer and it had only done an indicated 135k. Then as I looked around the interior I realised that BeeM, Merc et al can hardly have been pooing it when it hit the streets in '86.
cheers,
Stu
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You could argue that a 135k example anything that can go wrong has and been replaced so it's worth a gamble. Would i gamble with my own money? I really like the 800 always have but the answer has to be no. I just can't take the chance.. shame.
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I like cars that depreciate heavily. It means I don't have to pay much for them. Current Range Rover excepted. I would never buy a brand new car because they all depreciate loads as soon as you drive off the forecourt whatever make they are. Obviously ignoring new Ford Gts.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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4533187356
on e-bay but you'll have to be quick.
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I had a bright red Vitesse 800. Jeez, it was rapid! 2litre twin turbo nutter git. The only gripe I had with it was that it squeaked and rattled quite a bit, especially around where the rear seats clicked into the stays at the side. Lot of torque steer, but if pulling a c/van I don't suppose that will bother you too much. Also, and it takes some getting used to, but the gear lever seemed a bit to far forward of the driver. OK if you have monkey arms like mine, but if you are a bit short armed....apart from not being able to stand your round in the pub.... you may find it annoying.
Apart from that I enjoyed it. It was reliable and I think it would make a good buy. Oh, and lots of leg room for passengers in the rear.
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Despite being a Rover fan (two 75's and a MG ZT) I would be cautious about taking on an elderly 800. They had a variable reputation. Very early V6 800's were badged 825 and this was the first Honda engine used in the 800. These cars were all on D and E plates, most would have been scrapped by now. The 827 followed which was also a Honda engine and this was a lovely unit, offering more torque and continued until about 1996 when the 800 was give its last facelift.
The Honda V6 was then discontinued to be replaced by the first generation KV6 unit. Unfortunately these engines did not get off to a good start, suffering from headgasket problems. There was an article in Car Mechanics about 3 years ago on this engine. There was apparently no official recall but many cars were returned to Longbridge for 're-engineering'. If buying an early KV6 800, make sure the work has been done. These cars would be on a N or P plate. Later 800's were sorted and this engine should not be confused with the KV6 used in other Rovers such as the 75 - it was apparently significantly reworked.
The best 800 in my opinion was the diesel. It used the Italian VM engine, a good tough unit lacking refinement by modern standards but would be good for towing.
However, Rover 800's can be picked up for peanuts now and if you can find one that has been well maintained, it could be a sensible buy. Keep it until something big goes wrong and then scrap it.
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Just like to say thanks to everyone for the 31 replies. Not every Forum generates such help. As for will I won't I, still unsure!
Thanks again, lots of good info.
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Here's some of what I've written about my R800:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=15...1
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=66...5
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=88...3
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=61...6
I haven't used my 820VS for towing, but I did do some towing with my 827. It was a very good tow car. Other people I know have towed caravans with 820s (non turbo) with great success. The 827 engine has some very small waterways and if the cooling system isn't maintained properly it can suffer overheating. The 2 litre T series isn't as susceptible but will still suffer if abused.
Obviously, like looking for any car, try to look at ones that have obviously been cared for. When you get it (whatever you get) give it a full service (including a proprietry flush in the cooling system). If you do get an 800, drain the gearbox oil and use something decent in it - I use Torco RTF. Engine oil changes are also crucial to all engine variants (for differing reasons), so do this frequently.
I'm about to put a new rad in mine because i was able to get a new one very cheap. I have given the cooling system a flush previously and will do so again. I also fill it with deionised water, 25% long life antifreeze and half a bottle of Red Line Water Wetter. The turbo has water cooled bearings and I feel this coolant mix gives the best possible heat transfer and frost protection combination for our UK climate. It will also help to keep the head temperatures down when going hard (which i do a lot).
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Should have added that I would expect the 820VS to be very good for towing with its lower gearing, close ratio box and flat torque curve. Only fly in the ointment might be the tall first gear - but your proposed tow weight is under this cars rated 1600kg.
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Should also add that I'd agree with the comments about very early examples. Pre 1990 800s really were very poor. 1990 model year brought an array of improvements that made it a much better car, but the damage was already done to the cars reputation. More improvements arrived in 92 with the facelift. However since you're looking for the 200bhp version you'll be buying 1995 or later, though I'd recommend that you buy 1996 or later.
Watch out for 180bhp turbos that have had the 17 inch wheels retro fitted. the genuine 200bhp version was called Vitesse Sport on the log book until 97MY when the 180bhp version was discontinued and all Vitesses became 200bhp. the Coupe Vitesse was always 200bhp.
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>>>Very early V6 800's were badged 825 and this was the first Honda engine used in the 800. These cars were all on D and E plates, most would have been scrapped by now<<<
Interestingly I saw a Sterling (i.e. Rover) 825 in San Jose California 2 days ago!
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My experience with an 820 was on the negative side: it needed about a litre of oil every 500 miles. Don't know if this was typical.
Oz (as was)
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Rover base model 827 5 door rare manual. L reg, white almost certainly ex police, 100k looks genuine, no rust at all! holes in roof, footbrake goes to floor, engine has misfire (been standing) Its a Cat D claim (very very minor bonnet ding) for sale at a reputable salvage outlet for £350. I can't find ANY manual 827's apart from ropey ones (2) on Ebay. If I was a mechanic, I'd take a chance on this, I'm not so I won't!!
I'll post a link if anyones interested (if thats allowed)
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Rover base model 827 5 door rare manual. L reg, white almost certainly ex police, 100k looks genuine, no rust at all! holes in roof, footbrake goes to floor, engine has misfire (been standing) Its a Cat D claim (very very minor bonnet ding) for sale at a reputable salvage outlet for £350. I can't find ANY manual 827's apart from ropey ones (2) on Ebay. If I was a mechanic, I'd take a chance on this, I'm not so I won't!! I'll post a link if anyones interested (if thats allowed)
To be honest, rare manual or not, you'd pay half that at any auction, especially if it's Cat D.
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Just wanted to add my two-pennorth because I did a huge and very enjoyable mileage with a V6 Honda Legend coupe. It always had a brief tappet rattle when cold and I heard lots of ideas for solutions. The one that worked for me was 'just keep it serviced and don't listen for the first two minutes after start-up'!
I once tested an 800 two litre and was amazed at how i had to wring it's neck to make it go. I would repeat the advice above and look for a very late Honda-engined 827.
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