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**** Poll now closed. Results here:- ****
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=29634&...e
This weeks poll, as suggested by Tyro:-
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I'll get in ahead of you-know-who and ask ~ what about extraordinary steel wheels? ;-)
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Alloy wheels are fine, until they get marked by kerbs (which my wife seems unable to avoid), or the finish starts to degrade, when they start to look a mess. At least with steel wheels, the plastic trims can be replaced at a reasonable cost.
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As far as I can recall the only car I ever had with plastic trims was a Cavalier. It was just as well they were cheap and easy to replace, I must have got through about 7,000 before I gave up.
And the one time I tried tie-wrapping them on, the girlfriend wrecked one when she had a puncture.
*THE* single biggest argument for alloys is the lack of those stupid plastic wheel trims.
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The reason I prefer alloys is that the important dimensions are more accurate than with steel wheels. Being machined instead of pressed, the diameter on which the tyres seat has greater circularity and is more concentric with the wheel bolt pitch circle. Consequently they give rise to less vibration problems, and less wheel balancing problems.
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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*THE* single biggest argument for alloys is the lack of those stupid plastic wheel trims.
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My Sierra Ford plastic trims were great.
They never fell off. They had steel fixing clips. They did not overlap the rims so in the case of a curbing, the steel took the strain and I took a file and a dab of paint.
They survived beautifully for all the years I had the car.
Not to be confused with cheap immitations.
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I have these (or similar) on my old Escort. I love the fact that I can go as far up to the curb as I like without ever scraping the trim. Although I wish I'd remembered to be careful when I was driving my mums 106 today while my car's off the road (see technical)! Oops! The only downside is that they're white and annoyingly the garage I had it seviced at the second time after I'd had it cracked one in half and didn't tell me! Now all wheel trims come off when it goes to a third party (i.e. a tyre garage).
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Do you mean alloys, or low profile tyres?
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I would not accept a car with alloys?
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Oh for the days of steel wheels and chrome hub caps sheer bliss !!!
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Oh for the days of steel wheels and chrome hub caps sheer bliss !!!
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Taxi Sir!
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People without alloy wheels have poor taste and lack class.
Well its one opinion!
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if your prefer steelies do you prefer them with or without trims?
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Steel any day. Meeting a truck on a tight blind bend in town recently I had to take to the kerb, gently as I could, so we could pass. Comming down again the wheel trim caught the edge and lost a chunk of plastic. Unsightly and a nusience, but cheap. Hate to have done that with an alloy.
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>>People without alloy wheels have poor taste and lack class.
Sensible though.Cheaper to replace wheel trims/wheels;)
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Steve
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People without alloy wheels have poor taste and lack class. Well its one opinion!
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We have two cars, one with steel wheels and one with alloy wheels. When I drive the one with alloy wheels do I suddenly acquire taste and move up in class?
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Oh for the days of steel wheels and chrome hub caps sheer bliss !!!
I think you mean nave plates. Hub caps are the things that retain the grease in, and keep the dirt out of, the hub. Pedantic? Moi? ;-)
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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-Shallow mode on- Cant stand wheel trims, they look cheap and nasty would rather have the plain steel. For the 10mins that the alloys stay clean they look soooo much better !
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I can truthfully and proudly claim that I have never been guilty of having either taste or class in my life. Being an ignorant philistine has proved no barrier in getting me where I am today.
Nowhere.
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There is a technical reason for alloys being superior-they reduce unsprung weight.I ran steel rims sans trims on my Sierra estate before fitting a set of alloys from an Orion,they certainly look better and seem better to drive on.
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funnily enough on many family cars the alloy option is heavier than the steel wheel equivalent
alloys are sometime better simply because they supply slightly wider wheels if you specify alloys than you get with the standard steel wheels, if you compare wheels of same width there is often nothing in it
of course i prefer steel simply because its one less thing for the scroats to steal, and depending where you visit and park this can be an issue
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i meant to say
they supply slightly wider wheels and/or better tyres if you specify alloys
often the tyres they are putting on the alloys is the only difference in handling from the steel option
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What about 'I would fit alloys if the car did not have them'?
Mind you I cannot see myself buying a car thats so low spec it doesn't have them, so I'll use one of the above options :)
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Mind you I cannot see myself buying a car thats so low spec it doesn't have them...
Look around at prestigious cars that are a few years old. You'll find that the practice of putting alloy wheels on all but the most basic of models is a fairly recent phenomenon.
Alloy wheels look nice when clean and unscratched but for practicality give me hub caps any day.
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I ran steel rims sans trims on my Sierra estate before fitting a set of alloys from an Orion,
I thought rear wheel drive cars have different wheels to a front wheel drive? Isn't the offset different?
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The alloys on my Omega lasted superbly. I kept the car for nine years and they were like new when I got rid.
Incidentally, the wheel trims on my last Carlton were stainless steel and cost a mint. After it had gone in for a service - I think it was two years old at this time - I lost two on my way home. The retaining springs used to rust through, and the garage had removed the trims during servicing. When the wheels were replaced the springs must have come adrift on my ride home. The garage wouldn't replace them for me so I 'phoned Vauxhall who sent me a complete set gratis.
Whatever people may say about Vauxhall I always found them to be superb at handling complaints.
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I answered the poll with my private transport in mind. It's very much hourses for courses - alloys don't suit every environment. I wouldn't be in a hurry to put them on my van. The car and the Discovery do look great with them though. Incidently they are also lighter than their steel counterparts.
H
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MX5 steel wheels (I have a feeling these are an 'option'?) 18lbs
"standard" alloys 12.3lbs
Factory Optional BBS alloys 8.5lbs
All the above 14".
Virtually all aftermarked wheels are over 18lbs
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MX5 ...... "standard" alloys 12.3lbs Factory Optional BBS alloys 8.5lbs
I think I'd sooner trust the "standard" 12.3 lb alloys to not suffer from fatigue fractures than I would the BBS 8.5 lb wheels. I wonder how much fatigue testing BBS do? Mazda wheels would be comprehensively tested. I can't imagine BBS using material sufficiently superior to compensate for a weight of only 2/3rds of the "standard" wheels. I realise that shape and quality of the casting process come into it as well, but I'd still be very wary of the BBS wheels. In fact I'd be very wary of any aftermarket wheels.
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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.... but I'd still be very wary of the BBS wheels. In fact I'd be very wary of any aftermarket wheels.--
Do not fear but have a read here
www.bbs.com/english/unternehmen_geschichte.html
I hope this changes your view.
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.... but I'd still be very wary of the BBS wheels. In fact I'd be very wary of any aftermarket wheels. >> -- Do not fear but have a read here www.bbs.com/english/unternehmen_geschichte.html I hope this changes your view.
Very interesting (and outwardly impressive) website, henry k.
Having spent over 40 years in automotive R&D the first thing I homed in on was the Development section. One question ~ if you had BBS wheels fitted, would they come with a Mazda warranty? I've had at least two (there may have been others in my 40 years of motoring lifetime which I don't remember) car components fail through fatigue at relatively low mileages, and I was pleased to be able to fall back on the car manufacturer's warranty. Admittedly (and thankfully) they were a relatively trivial bonnet hinge and dipstick tube support bracket. Not life threatening failures, but both quite expensive to rectify ~ replacing the dipstick tube support bracket (which was on the back of the engine) involved removing the heater. I just hope that aftermarket wheel manufacturers really know what they are doing, instead of just saying that they do. Having a wheel fracture on the move would not be my idea of fun.
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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That's a common myth. This one was scotched some time ago on one of the MG BBSs. Some anorak weighed all the sets of wheels he had. The alloys and steels came out virtually identical (alloys slightly *heavier*). The only ones that actually gave any significant weight advantage were the wires!
I reckon the reason the motorsport boys use alloys is the greater accuracy of manufacture mentioned earlier and that they're more likely to survive a clout than steels.
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I can sympathise wit those who regard plastic wheel trims as a nuisance, but those aren't the only alterantive to alloys. In the 80s, quite a few French cars had steel wheels painted silver and black, with shiny (chromed? stainless?) nuts on the bolts.
Looked fine, no hub caps or trims to get lost -- and a lot cheaper and more durable than alloys.
The cost of alloys is leading manufacturers to strip out useful things -- e.g. HJ reported at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=161 that Honda have taken the suntoof out of the Jazz when they added the toy wheels.
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If only wheel trims could be like the O/E ones on the old Mk1 Sierra that i had, then i would be very happy with wheel trims over alloys, since they were very difficult to damage in such a way that they are unuseable and totally unslightly. They were made out of a rubbery plastic and were a really good fit so didn't fall off (they fit inside the wheel rim rather then covering it). In the 90's however there seems to have been a sudden switch to v hard (?cheap plastic wheel trims that crack and spilt the moment they touch the curb, and are geneally very poorly made (compared my 2001 Ka hub caps with 83 sierra ghia hubcaps that i have and the design was a leap backwards) and i prefer alloys over these since alloys don't tend to fall off and split.
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I can sympathise wit those who regard plastic wheel trims as a nuisance, but those aren't the only alterantive to alloys. In the 80s, quite a few French cars had steel wheels painted silver and black, with shiny (chromed? stainless?) nuts on the bolts. Looked fine, no hub caps or trims to get lost -- and a lot cheaper and more durable than alloys.
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My 1969 1600E had steel chromed wheels with just the rims painted.
The earlier model had totally chromed wheels.
www.martinbass.org.uk/cortinapage2.htm
They were a big target for scroats. I along with four others, one lunch time, lost their spare wheels from in the boot.
So the downside was I needed to padlock the spare IN the boot.
>>The cost of alloys is leading manufacturers to strip out useful things -- e.g. HJ reported at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=161 that Honda have taken the suntoof out of the Jazz when they added the toy wheels.
>>It is common to have no sun roof when an A/C fitted.
I had a sun roof on my Sierra and have a sun roof plus A/C on my Mondeo. The sun roof stays shut but it does allow the sunlight in to make the interior brighter.
So yes it is useful to me but a cheap glass panel would do just as well with no fear of leaks etc.
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"I can sympathise wit those who regard plastic wheel trims as a nuisance, but those aren't the only alterantive to alloys. In the 80s, quite a few French cars had steel wheels painted silver and black, with shiny (chromed? stainless?) nuts on the bolts.
Looked fine, no hub caps or trims to get lost -- and a lot cheaper and more durable than alloys"
Renault 5 for instance?
I have owned Cits with wheel trims for the last 18 years and never lost one (wheel trims that is - often lost a Cit in a carpark when it has sunk on the suspension and "hidden"!). I put it down to the fact that they are held on by clipping onto the wheel nuts (bolts actually) rather than the rims as most others seem to be
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"I reckon the reason the motorsport boys use alloys is the greater accuracy of manufacture mentioned earlier and that they're more likely to survive a clout than steels."
That goes against practical wisdom. Please explain how. Refer to all the previous threads by cheesed off back roomers.
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I think I remember reading somewhere once that motorsport boys use them as they are better at getting airflow to the brakes for cooling. Could be an urban myth I've picked up though, I'm not really sure but they do seem to expose the discs and calipers a lot more than steels. Brake cooling isn't an issue with road cars.
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Don't the motorsport boys use a lightweight alloy wheel, which is not only stronger, but a lot lighter than road going steel or alloy wheels as well?
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Might be more to do with reducing un-sprung weight. Makes more difference to motorcycles than cars, I would imagine.
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Motor-racing wheels use a special magnesium alloy, absolutely no comparison to roadgoing aluminium alloys in terms of weight or strength or cost.
Some road going alloys can even be heavier than the steel equivalent!
StarGazer
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Brake cooling isn't an issue with road cars.
Sorry, but I don't agree. Brake fade, which is caused by brake discs/pads/fluid overheating, can occur when the brakes are used frequently or for long periods at a time. This is probably not likely to occur very much in the UK but it can be a real problem in mountainous terrain.( When I worked in car disc brake R&D in the 1960's, the standard fade test for a high performance road car was 30 stops from 100mph in 30 minutes. Real stomach-churning stuff.)
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L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Point taken L'escargot. I was thinking more of the constant braking from high speeds for bends sort of driving that you only get on the track.
I was looking at this thread from from the go faster stripe mentality that goes with alloys. Brake fade shouldn't really happen to a Nissan micra in Norwich whether it has steel wheels or 17 inch alloys!
All the best
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The results of this weeks poll are:-
Poll 30. What is your attitude to alloy wheels when choosing a car?
I'd prefer ordinary steel wheels = 45
It makes no difference to me one way or the other = 26
If it doesn't cost extra, I'll take the alloys = 57
I would pay extra for alloys = 25
I would not accept a car without alloys = 52
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I've never had a car with alloy wheels. I'd prefer to have them on my next car, though, as I'd rather have real alloys than steel rims with plastic trims that feebly try to look like alloys!
There are a lot of ugly wheels about, both alloys and plastic trims. The best looking alloys are the ones with plain, radial spokes. I don't like the fancy ones with holes, swirls and silly sculpting.
Also I don't like the look of ultra low-profile tyres on large diameter rims (so-called 'drugdealer wheels'). From the side they look like puny bicycle wheels. I like to see a bit of tyre!
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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There are some cars that look better with steel wheels, the two that spring to mind are both Vauxhalls. '94 ish V6 Cavaliers had wheel trims on their 15" steels that looked better that the alloy alternative. The Police had a lot of Cav's in this spec. Likewise the Meriva, a neat mini MPV - the 1.8 is pretty quick and handles well - looks better in the lower spec with steels than the higher spec with alloys.
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Since I suggested this poll, and because I was genuninely curious about the results, I'd like to thank DD for running it, and BRs for voting.
If this poll is generally representative of the car-buying public, it seems that there is a substantial minority who prefer steel to alloy. The question that arises in my mind is "How many manufacturers offer steel wheels as a no-cost option on cars that come with alloys as standard?"
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I reckon the reason the motor sport boys use alloys is the greater accuracy of manufacture mentioned earlier and that they're more likely to survive a clout than steels.
So far the problem of 'ease of manufacture' has been ignored in this thread. Yet we have been comparing wheels for a production line car, where many thousands of wheels are required, and where the setting up of a production line that needs the use of powerful presses and rolling machines to produce the steel wheel is not a large obstacle to manufacture, with the wheels that are made for racing cars where only a few sets of wheels are required.
Might it not be a preferred choice to manufacture in alloy for the latter?
On the question of alloys for ordinary cars, has the salt corrosion problem now been solved with the use of new alloys?
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