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many years ago i worked with a range rover driver who parked on the top floor of a multi story car park in several feet of snow, while everyone else used the floors below, just because he could, it was a fashion statement of sorts
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Anyone else noticed how some have fallen for the old trick of divide and conquer?
Let's all have a go at 4x4's, coz we don't have one.
Do you know when it's sunny on those two days a year some convertible owners have the top down! Just because they can! Show offs. All most justifies having one, tee hee.
One 4x4's have gone your turn will be next.........
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na the revolution will come first
the british public cannot surely put up with speed cameras, third world health treatment, high taxes, rubbish schools, etc for much longer ?
we need a bit more democracy like edinburgh got
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actually, third world health treatment is pretty good in places like India - you see the specialist first time around not after 5 botch ups by the GP - no waiting etc.
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Our local 4 x 4 mutts have a similar problem...
Recently, during torrential rains, a woman in an X3 ignored the polcie advice and took her car over a fast-flowing ford.
Car found 1 km downstream. woman's body a few ks further on...
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sorry, sub third world medical service, why do we put up with it?
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I only drive my Landcruiser a couple of times a week, but I'm always aware that other motorists may find a large car aggressive. As a result I try to drive with this in mind, plus the fact that it hardly goes like a Ferrari, and certainly doesn't handle like one.
As a result, when I stick to the speed limit, plenty of people sit up my tailpipe. Leave a reasonable gap from the car in front and it's soon filled. Come to the end of a stretch of dual-carraigeway and it's a mad rush for everyone in the outside lane to squash in at the last minute, thereby leaving me up someone elses tailpipe, no doubt with me being branded agressive for being so close. Wait for a safe place to overtake, indicate. start to move out, but matey-boy behind who has quicker pick-up is already out there. Going straight at a roundabout, same thing happens.
None of the above makes me feel like others think I'm agressive, more like the other way round. It's a simple fact that unless you drive aggressively, whatever your vehicle, others just take the pea. It's just that doing it in a large off-roader seems to give other small-minded road users an excuse to moan.
So from now on I'm going back to normal. Leave it till the last minute to cut in, and I'll not back off. Sit up my backside when I'm observing a speed limit and I'll slow down. Try and overtake when you know full well that I'm about to do the same, and I'm just going to carry on pulling out. Meet me coming the other way down a narrow country lane, and you slow down and move onto the verge for a change.
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Dave, you drive what you like and enjoy doing so. In my neck of the woods there are quite a few 4x4s, some obviously farm workhorses and some personal choice. I don't particularly like 4x4s, but I don't like Yaris size things either. I hate being tailgated by anything, the worst I have experienced was a Fiesta which was so close that its bonnet was not visible. The only time I get nervous with them(4x4s) is in narrow lanes, but around here this is a common occurance and due curtesey is usually observed by both parties.
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I wish to make it absolutely clear at the start that I am not anti 4x4.
I too, have noticed this effect, though not so much in the snow (very little down here). No, I noticed it in the recent rain. 4x4 drivers were clearly aiming into large puddles when there was plenty of room to go round. It appeared to be done to show that one can do it. And to be fair, it's not a problem unless there's a broken bottle or other junk under the water. In which event, it's not my problem anyway.
I just laugh.
V
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'otherwise futile toy'
If the guys worked for his money and paid his taxes why can't he have what he wants?
Unless you drive a base model Escort I'm pretty sure theres some 'refinement' on your car that falls in to the toy category.
Electric windows? What wrong don't you have hands? Plus the extra juice to run them means some ickle cute animal in Grrenland just died of heat exhaustion.
I'm tempted to call you a name that would get me in trouble with the mods...
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An acquaintance told me of a trip on a dual carriageway in a snowstorm. Most traffic was driving slowly ino the inside lane, where there was less snow. But several 4x4's shot past in the outside lane - a mile or two further on, as the snow got worse, some of these had spun out of control!
4x4's might be able to keep going in slippery conditions but they don't necessarily stop any better than ordinary cars.
When I had my Land Rover, the only day in 10 years when the snow was too deep to attempt the journey in an ordinary car, the Land Rover wouldn't start!!!
Cheers, SS
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The 4 x 4 drivers around here seem to love tailgating anything smaller than them. Only watched one this morning driving about 2 inches away from the bumper of an Astra who's driver looked terrified - not to mention the two small children she had in the back.
I hate them because when you drive a Corsa their headlights are directly in line with your eyes. Its like having someone drive right up close with the full beam headlights on .... very uncomfortable and even dangerous for the person in front.
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Just to add my two pennith.
In a similar situ, I chose to drive in the outside lane with the fresh snow, rather than the ice rink that was the other lanes.
As a general rule it is safer, (obvioulsy not going stupidly fast) as you do not need to apply your brakes as when you take your foot of the gas the snow slows you down automatically, therefore less chance of skidding.
Given the chance I always take this way, I was never much good at ice skating!!!!
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>>I'm tempted to call you a name that would get me in trouble with the mods...
And I'd have to remove it, however much I agreed with you.
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I wasn't getting at the ownership of 4x4's per se.What annoys me is there flippant and often agressive style around other road users who are treading carefully in the conditions.
And yes I agree they can ' drive what they want' ..,but I also can think of them as wholly stupid for doing so when they never get out of kensington.If they want to waste their money its up to them.As long as I am not affected by their poor driving attitude,fine.
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4x4s tail gate everybody
- my experience would be that its usually middle aged plonkers in company saloon cars.
BMWs sit in the fast lane holding everybody up and never indicate
- not really, I think that's more usually smaller cars driven by people who are not on a schedule.
Motorcyclists are hooligans
-Not so much; they're too vulnerable and most of them are aware of the fact.
Small-minded people in this country seem to feel that they have a right to interfere in and commetn on other peoples' lives, presumably compensating for a lack in their own.
- now that would seem to be true.
I have been tailgated by a Corsa when I've been driving the Landcruiser. However, I am compelled to concede that we probably shouldn't tar all Corsa owners with the same brush.
The Landcruiser has actually been hit up the rear by a Yaris that tailgatd my wife all through Watford. Although, I guess not all Yaris drivers drive like that.
I am amazed by the amount of small, vulnerable cars that will tailgate something as big as a Landcruiser. Frequently they are in a position where I can't even see them other than the occasional glimpse in my door mirrors.
I think you'll find that there are dumb people in just about all vehicles (except mine).
>>but I also can think of them as wholly stupid for doing so when they never get out of kensington.
What about "live and let live" ? Why are they stupid ? Perhaps its not something you want to do, but why does that make them stupid ?
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Interesting positions indeed.
My snapshot of one days snowy conditions is perversely different. Every 4x4 I came across was driving excessively slowly. Either forcing people to overtake or causing large queues to build up.Roads were well gritted and main roads generally had no actual snow. Shoguns were the worst offenders.
--
I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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>>but I also can think of them as wholly stupid for doing so when they never get out of kensington. What about "live and let live" ? Why are they stupid? >>
Because these go-anywhere vehicles usually can't get down the residential Kensington streets as they're so wide? ;-)
I think it comes down to whether you should be allowed to do whatever you want, or whether it's a good idea to share responsibilites for oil reserves and use a car which does 25mpg in town, rather than 10mpg
Personally I hope that cars become more efficient so we still have the freedom to drive what we want.
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THe mistake is to think that the following is *ALWAYS* true
4x4 = big vehicle = high fuel consumption = driven badly.
A Fiat Panda can be 4x4, its not big.
A RAV4 uses less fuel than a Mercedes
Nothing is driven as badly as a Reliant Robin.
Target bad driving, by all means.
Target high fuel consumption, if you wish.
Target oversize vehicles, if you have a good reason.
But 1) don't think that all those things are covered by the phrase 4x4 and 2)what about pickups, vans, large MPVs etc. Will you target them next ?
The reality is that for an awful lot of people the above are excuses for attacking something [SUVs] they don't want, they don't like, and that they don't believe that other people should have.
As with some many things in this country, more and more people believe they have a right to control, influence and comment on the lives of others for no better reason than some self-perception of themselves as a "better" person. And nowhere is this more evident than in driving related matters.
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Is it me, or does this phenomena seem to a 'southern thing'?
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What about "live and let live" ? Why are they stupid ? Perhaps its not something you want to do, but why does that make them stupid ?
I do live and let live BUT I hold an OPPINION they are stupid to drive a large off road vehicle in a congested area where they will achieve 10mpg and struggle to park.And as I said before,I dislike there agresseive snow testing.
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even on a bad hair day i could never get 10mpg.nothing like a 4x4 thread to get everyone stirred up.
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even on a bad hair day i could never get 10mpg.nothing like a 4x4 thread to get everyone stirred up.
I know that Top Gear did a test of a Range Rover 4 litre driving it around Kensington a few years ago (when Clarkson still had hair on top) and it got 9.something mpg
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'or whether it's a good idea to share responsibilites for oil reserves'
I work in the oil industry. Please do not fall for the tree huggers line that oil is running out any time soon. There are enough proven reserves for 200 years (and there is probably a lot more to be found or recovered) at current estimates and yes the word estimates does include allowances for expansion by the likes of China.
If you consider what the world was like in 1805 (horse drawn vehicles) and now (cars) I would conjecture that the world will be so vastly different in 200 years that oil will be an irrelevenace.
As for global warming, one minute its warming the next its a new ice age. Truth is they haven't got a clue and take the answer they want and then work backwards. Global warming is predicted by mathematical models that ASSUME global warming. You run the model and hey presto global warming. Take out this variable and run the model again and shazzam NO global warming.
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Sooner or later the oil will run out. North Sea gas is already running out and North Sea oil production is past its peak after only 30 years' production. I'm old enough to remember when North Sea oil was promised as Britain's saviour, a resource that would make us self-sufficient in oil.
BP says there's about 40 years' worth of oil reserves left in the world. Even if Europe economises the USA shows no sign of doing so and China, Russia, India etc. will need more as their economies grow. Even if there are oil reserves to last 200 years, who's to say they'll be available to us here?
The motor industry is developing vehicles that are more suitable for using renewable energy sources - Diesels suitable for using 100% biodiesel and hybrid drive systems with regenerative braking are a production reality (though not combined in the same vehicle as yet - why? Price?)
Surely it's a good idea to adopt renewables that will make the finite resources last longer. After which we'll have to rely on renewables anyway!
Re: global warming - I agree - jury still out! But it's a good precaution to seek to reduce carbon emissions, which MIGHT have started global warming. Also, CFC's could have done that, even though they've been banned.
SUV's aren't necessarily gas guzzlers, and no worse than luxury saloons, high-performance cars etc. Maybe they give a sense of security, but looking through salvage adverts in 4x4 mags, a lot of the crashed one seem to have been rolled. Do 4x4's have stronger roofs than other cars? Doesn't look like it.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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By the same token I hold an OPPINION [sic] that you are stupid to have an opinion of something of which you clearly know nothing.
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By the same token I hold an OPPINION [sic] that you are stupid to have an opinion of something of which you clearly know nothing.
Ooohh get her!
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"Ooohh get her!" - A profound and well-argued come-back. W hy don?t you tell us what you drive so we can give you a long list of bitter reasons as to why you shouldn?t.
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"Ooohh get her!" - A profound and well-argued come-back. W hy don?t you tell us what you drive....
A quick forum search revealed a Toyota Corolla diesel and a Pug 106 diesel ;o)
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"Ooohh get her!" - A profound and well-argued come-back. W hy don?t you tell us what you drive so we can give you a long list of bitter reasons as to why you shouldn?t.
I felt It was in keeping with the Moderators resroting to name calling and failing to keep to the OP theme which was about the attitude of some drivers of large 4X4's in dodgy weather.
The fact I consider ownership of said vehicles in urban areas to be 'Stupid' is an oppinion I am entitled too and if you care to list the merits of such a practice I would respect your oppinions but stiil may conclude you are stupid to hold them.
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which was about the attitude of some drivers of large 4X4's in dodgy weather.
Why single out 4x4 drivers and acuse only them poor driving in dodgy weather? Are you saying people with 2 wheel drive are excellent drivers then? I beg to differ.
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Why single out 4x4 drivers and acuse only them poor driving in dodgy weather? Are you saying people with 2 wheel drive are excellent drivers then? I beg to differ.
As you haven't grasped it Dave,I'll reiterate it again. It was about how those with 4 wheel capability use that normally redundant feature to put the hurry on us 2WD mortals and generally wizz about while the rest of us are trying to get to work in one piece.
I was going to go on and explain how you could smarten up your postings by using italics to quote previous posts but as its taken 32 posts to get my point over to you I think I'll go and flick through my latest copy of 'Urban Offroader'
Jeeez!
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As you haven't grasped it Dave,I'll reiterate it again. It was about how those with 4 wheel capability use that normally redundant feature to put the hurry on us 2WD mortals and generally wizz about while the rest of us are trying to get to work in one piece.
Well, pull over and let them go by. Hardly rocket science.
I was going to go on and explain how you could smarten up your postings by using italics to quote previous posts
Why bother, when there is a perfectly good system that does it for you already? Far quicker than faffing about pressing the shift, then the less than key, followed by an 'i', followed by another press of the shift key and a press of the greater than key, then having to repeat it all over again at the end of the sentence, with the addition of having to include a forward slash character.
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Well, pull over and let them go by. Hardly rocket science.
So you haved grasped the bully boy aspect of some 4X4 drivers in the bad weather!
Don't give into bullies mate
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Don't give into bullies mate
Let's hope the next tractor driver you're stuck behind for several miles doesn't have the same attitude as you!
Your car is faster than the tractor, so you would obviously want to get past it. A 4x4 is faster and handles better than your car in poor conditions, so he/she wants to get past you ASAP.
QED.
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Thought a large SUV was going to tailgate today, as he was obviously catching up quickly, but he was a gentleman, and kept back, even though we were in a line following a Micra or similar. Unlike the idiot in a Focus earlier in the week who tailgated me through a village (30) and continued to, even on a private school road, with speed humps. Her excuse when I stopped and asked, mildly, for a reason? I'm trying to get to work. Took me quite a long time to get into gear to allow us both to continue: strange that.
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"As you haven't grasped it Dave,I'll reiterate it again..."
That'll be the fourth time you've said it then.
My experience of driving 4x4s is that I am more often the tailgatee than the tailgater. The mere sight of a vehicle that looks as if it might hold them up by not staying at least 20mph above the speed limit, especially if it's a Land Rover, brings out the most reckless behaviour in some people (I won't attempt to attribute this to any particular group, e.g. repmobile drivers, as this would be just as ludicrous as the sweeping condemnation of 4x4 users).
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