Which? have it about right. BMW's are about average.
The Which? survey takes account of breakdowns and major faults. 'Niggles' count too, but with a low weighting.
Problems on recent BMW's are mainly with the cooling system and electronics.
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A friend of mine had his Turbo blow on his 1 year old BMW 330d in Holland. It was repaired the next day and they got a free night in a super hotel. Changing a Turbo the next day was excelent service under guarantee and a long way from home. The garage really gave top notch service! He's going to buy another one regardless of the big or small problems he's had. I don't drive BMW but I get the feeling you get hooked on the driving experience with BM. I feel the reliabilty surveys are good but we miss out on the other reasons why we buy a car. I've heard Mercedes break down more than any other (prestige)make at the moment yet the owners never really complain. The pleasure is greater than the pain! Or perhaps they're too upset to mention the problems on the Forum?
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I don`t think anyone could deny that the Japanese manufacturers have held the high ground in the reliability ratings for some years, but as montpellier pointed out, people buy BMW`s for the sheer pleasure of the driving experience, which no Japanese manufacturer, including Lexus, has yet equalled.
In 3 years of ownership my 320d Touring has not missed a beat and every journey is a special occasion. I keep trying the latest Japanese models, because I respect their engineering integrity, but none to date have the driving dynamics and interior quality to tempt me away from my Beemer.
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Yawn.....
I have owned BMW's, Mercs (got one at the moment) and a few other brands besides. My BMW 7-series was one of the most troublesome cars I had.
My basic requirment from any car is reliability - which the Japanese brands give you.
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Well, from my parents experience BMW reliability's not all its cracked up to be. We've got a 2002 325i thats broken down twice, the first time because one of the coils packed up (BMW changed all six) andd then a month later because the throttle position sensor packed up, meaning revs were all over the place when it was idling, but when you went to put your foot down it would stall.
We've also got one of the last first shape 316i Compacts (X reg). It went in for a service at 52000 miles to be told that the differential was whining and would need mending fairly soon.
My Dads previous BM wasn't faultless either (a 1997 323i). It went for a service and it came out with a new short engine. Dealer said they changed it after instruction from BMW hq.
Must say though that BMW customer service is second to none, all problems sorted quickly under warranties.
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I have had 9 window regulators failon my 3 series of which 6 have been paid for by BMW, know the car is out of warranty I will have to pay myself , currently three have failed. BMW say that because of the hot weather in the middle east the plastic design fails...I think its due to rubbish engineering, they use plastic to reduce weight, a premium brand should recognise an inherent design fault and provide a 10 year guarantee ,in my opinion..
I live in Abu Dhabi, of course this is on top of the a/c unit failing, dealer says excessive use is to blame...what a load of crap...but BMW paid for the repair...and of course the air mass sensor failed....thermostat was changed again BMW paid up...they petrol fuel guage is a bit dodgy...I am thinking of changing to a Toyota....
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"..........BMW say that because of the hot weather in the middle east the plastic design fails...I
think its due to rubbish engineering,......
You are both right here.
BMW admit by what they say that their car isn't suitable for your climate!
H
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Interesting to see this thread. I was considering getting a 328 or 330, but a friend told me he thought his ran 'Windows' because every so often it would 'reboot', all the windows would wind up by themselves, some sort of a 'hard reset'. Maybe their quality has gone down like everyone says Merecedes has.
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Until June last year, I had a 320TD SE Compact. It was a great car to drive and very comfortable. However, at idle it developed a high pitched tinny rattle underneath. I took it in to dealer garage under warranty. They told me that the engine mountings had collapsed due to excessive torque. This had caused downwards pressure on the exhaust pipe which had then bent and in turn caused the rattle.
I queried why the mountings had collapsed after only a year. They told me that the torque is so great on these diesel engines that they can do damage to the mountings after a while as the engine tries to twist on itself in the engine bay and that on occasion they have had to decrease torque on some customers cars.
They didn't use this as a sales pitch when I purchased the car! Rather, they extolled the virtues of the torque/BHP etc.
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Until June last year, I had a 320TD SE Compact. It was a great car to drive and very comfortable. However, at idle it developed a high pitched tinny rattle underneath. I took it in to dealer garage under warranty. They told me that the engine mountings had collapsed due to excessive torque. This had caused downwards pressure on the exhaust pipe which had then bent and in turn caused the rattle. I queried why the mountings had collapsed after only a year. They told me that the torque is so great on these diesel engines that they can do damage to the mountings after a while as the engine tries to twist on itself in the engine bay and that on occasion they have had to decrease torque on some customers cars. They didn't use this as a sales pitch when I purchased the car! Rather, they extolled the virtues of the torque/BHP etc.
Diesel Montego's used to suffer the same problem (albeit they were FWD) - Rover beefed up the engine steady bar to get around the problem.
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They told me that the torque is so great on these diesel engines that they can do damage to the mountings after a while as the engine tries to twist on itself in the engine bay>>
This is a salesman telling you a lie about bad engineering - would you feel the same if a wheel fell off at 100mph? "It's due to the incredible power the engine produces, sir"
>>and that on occasion they have had to decrease torque on some customers cars.>>
*Bluff* again I think!
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So it has a design fault, I think these German cars are all over rated, its high time some of these so called motoring experts that wright news columns for high street magazines understoood some of the issues people face with these cars...time and time again we are told how wonderfull these cars are...when you consider whole life runnning costs...diminishing levels of customer care...expensive parts and servicing....I think these manufactureres will struggle...no wonder VW Group is suffereing collapsing profitability...BMW will follow soon...as its brand diminsihes in value...and looses its premium status...at leas MB has acknowledged the fact that its product has gone down hill...every lexus sold is a lost sale to BMW and MB, just wait untill they design thier cars with more Euro design falir but with Japanese standards of relaibility. I have a freind in London who works for a major south London based VW dealership, I told hin of a web article I read where the customer complained of his Auto box failing at 46k, he replied to me that he can show me boxes failing at 1k...needless to say that he himself drives a Toyota.
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So it has a design fault I think these German cars are all over rated ...every lexus sold is a lost sale to BMW and MB just wait untill they design thier cars with more Euro design falir but with Japanese standards of relaibility ...needless to say that he himself drives a Toyota.
Don't forget that last year, in the USA, Toyota recalled more cars than it sold!
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O think the issue being - at least Toyota recalled the cars. No messing / pleading with the dealers / headoffice.
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I live in Abu Dhabi of course this is on top of the a/c unit
Funnily enough, when I worked in Abu Dhabi back in 95/96, I commented on how few BMW's there were there at the time. Several people then told me that they just didn't stand up to the environment as well as Mercs. I was driving a BMW at the time in England and have had no real problems, so this was a surprise to me. Although at that time Mercs were being made properly !
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These days, a car should [and most do] complete 10yrs and 100,000 miles with nothing but an occasional dose of new oil, a new oil filter and a few brake pads. Anything less should be unacceptable.
This is clearly an opinion from a consumer, not from one in the trade!
It's high time we had a reliability index of average costs incurred by the 100,000 mile mark. It seems that too often cars are designed to cost the 0 - 80,000 user virtually nothing - and then everything falls to pieces after that.
As far as BMW is concerned I am sure they are lovely if they are company cars and you drive them from 0 - 80,000 but having heard [with supporting evidence] that the acronym stands for 'big money worries' I have always avoided them.
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I don`t think anyone could deny that the Japanese manufacturers have held the high ground in the reliability ratings for some years, but as montpellier pointed out, people buy BMW`s for the sheer pleasure of the driving experience, which no Japanese manufacturer, including Lexus, has yet equalled. In 3 years of ownership my 320d Touring has not missed a beat and every journey is a special occasion. I keep trying the latest Japanese models, because I respect their engineering integrity, but none to date have the driving dynamics and interior quality to tempt me away from my Beemer.
Have you tried a Legacy B4? Or any Legacy?
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>>people buy BMW`s for the sheer pleasure of the driving experience, which no Japanese manufacturer, including Lexus, has yet equalled.
Never driven a Subaru at full chat?
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Dude: "people buy BMW`s for the sheer pleasure of the driving experience"
And the badge, of course. Some survey or other said that 90 odd % of 7 series drivers do not have a test drive. How are they buying for the driving experience.
Don't get me wrong; I love it. The more people are seduced by the BMW badge, the fewer people want other cars, hence their prices are lower.
V
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Never broken down in my two older Mercs (M @ W) but have had niggling prolems...mainly elecrics .....surprise surprise.
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