The wife said that she went past a mobile roadside tax disc camera today in essex.
Problem was the tax disc ran out on the 31st Dec 2004.
I purchased the tax disc yesterday, but forgot to put it in until I got home from work today.
Am I likely to get a fine ? How do these things work ?
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The moment you pay at the PO, the details are sent to DVLA, so you should be OK as it will have been recorded taxed instantly.
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Was it definitely a tax disc camera?
We have a fair number of mobile ANPR units in Essex, which, apparently, are doing a good job of catching no end of scroats for all sorts of things, not necessarily motoring related.
I would think you'd be OK for the not having tax bit as the DVLA computer will have you listed as purchasing yesterday but there is a sting that the old catch all was 'failure to display', which undoubtedly you were. I'm sure DVD will be able to give chapter and verse on whether an ANPR can prosecute for failure to display if your wife wasn't actually stopped and cautioned.
I have a feeling that the tax disc cameras are basically used as corroborating evidence that an untaxed vehicle is being used and are not used to prosecute as sole evidence.
Cockle
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As far as I am aware The ANPR camera reads the number plate and then cross checks, as a minimum, tax disc, insurance and if reqd MoT that are all in order.
I think the mark one eyeball would be required to spot a non display.
They usually have other police, some on bikes, further along the road to stop potential offenders IMMEDIATELY.
I would expect no action in your case.
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Henry is correct, the camera only records that the vehicle was on the road at that particular time. It is not capable of reading a disc, so provided DVLA records show a valid VED for that date no problem.
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Was it a Police vehicle ? DVLA send out their own guys in a van with a camera these days. They won't stop you but they'll certainly penalise you.
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IIRC, ANPR can also check the colour of the vehicle, which is a pain for the Police when funny colours come up, like beiges registered at the DVLA as yellow'. I can imagine bus liveries flagging up all sorts of problems!
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I dont mean to be a deliverer of bad news (i could be wrong) but i thought that if you didnt get a tax disc by the day the old one was due to expire that the dvla were sending out £80 fines as there is no excuse not to buy a tax disc before it runs out.Im sure it tells you that in the reminder you get that it is due at the end of the month.
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Fail display not an issue
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With the reminder to renew your tax disc there was a leaflet entitled 'New Car Tax Rules'. In it a paragraph says: 'We will not send you a penalty letter provided that there is no gap between the expiry of the old tax disc and the commencement of the new one'. It appears that in your case there was a gap and as you had not submitted a SORN they will probably send you a nasty letter. For the benefit of the rest of us, do please let us know.
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The old chestnut about DVLA allowing 14 days grace has no authority at law but is still, as far as I am aware, practiced by DVLA administratively so he should be alright.
There is the offence committed of failing to display a current licence but you will not be reported for this its revenue they are after.
If the licence had not been renewed in Jan 05 or vehicle put on SORN then come first few days in February DVLA on their monthly cull came up with this fact then at that stage they would send out an 80 pound fine. Doesn't apply where the continuation is only broken by a couple of days.
DVD
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'We will not send you a penalty letter provided that there is no gap between the expiry of the old tax disc and the commencement of the new one
I think the above almost has the of giving 4 weeks grace about the automatic fine. So long as you pay the full whack for the current month and don't save a months tax you're ok.
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The £80 fine only applies if you have still not renewed or given a SORN one month after expiry of the tax disc. A search of previous discussions will produce a lin, probably posted by DVD to the actual regs.
Presumably designed to incentivise giving of SORN and stop people doing a 13 months for the price of 12 execise.
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>>Fail display not an issue
Did that change ? I seem to recall, in the days when I studied such things*, that failure to display was the entire problem and that not having the licence was not.
M.
* and we are talking the 70's !
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I think Pug meant that failure to display was not an issue only in this particular case, as the camera is not capable of detecting the prescence of a disc or not.
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Thanks for the answers, I will let you all know the outcome (if there is one).
Given the DVLA's ability to check if the licence has been issued for any car I wonder why its still a requirement to display the tax disc in the car at all.
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I've been having some trouble getting my car taxed this time due to me spending a few months stateside at the moment. I was chatting to my Dad about this and he reckoned there were two offences; not having a road excise licence and not displaying one, the former being more serious than the latter.
In this circumstance, I imagine you'll hear nothing. The DVLA can fine forgetful (but otherwise legal) motorists automatically. I'd imagine this kind of camera is looking for people with no tax, MOT, insurance or even V5.
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I seem to recall it being in the news last year that they will now be sending automatic fines to people who allow it to lapse without filing a SORN.
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Also wondering a bit here - I bought another car on 16yj December which had been SORNed by the previous owner. I decided not to use it until January and arranged the insurance transfer as such.
I continued using my existing car until 29th December, when I returned the tax disc and SORNed it.
Will they come after me for the period between purchase and taxation (on 3rd Jan), when the car was unused & uninsured in my driveway?
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Hard to say F as when you acquired the vehicle 16.12.04 despite having been on SORN by the old owner then it was your responsibility to re SORN as the new owner. Presumably a new Licence taken out was not backdated to cover Decemember 04 and timed to start 1.1.05. I hope that you made no use of it on a road between these dates as silent check, if any made, then could bring you some trouble.
May well be that change of ownership details arrive at same time as Licence details are updated and thereby satisfy DVLA.
DVD
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No, for once I was scrupulous about keeping it off the road - easy really as the old car was still taxed.
To my surprise, the new V5 arrived the day I taxed it (from1/1/05) and the chap at the PO remarked on the previous expiry date.
I mainly didn't SORN it because I figured that, with the huge holiday shutdown, it wouldn't arrive until (after) I taxed it.
If it comes to a dispute, I hope the fact that I didn't transfer the insurance until the 1st will be supporting evidence.
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Twas a time in a distant land long ago (well not that long!) that there were two bites of the cherry. 'Failing to display' and 'Not having'.
'Failing to Display' was prosecuted by the Police (CPS) and could still be and 'Not Having' was authirised by DVLA who once notified (another form to fill in!) worked out Back Duty and necessary fine and then sent the authority to prosecute back to the Police providing there were other offences eg No Insurance or whatever. The whole lot then went to court. 'Failing to Display' was always NFA'd (sorry - No Further Actioned) If there were no other offences then the DVLA would continue on its own by offering a penalty to be paid directly.
'Failing to Display' also covers an out of date or fraudulent
VEL placed in the screen.
Having said that it was always considered as having two bites of the cherry and was never proceeded with and still isnt. The only time was if a fixed penalty was issued which of course has to be paid and then the DVLA were on your back as well.
Yes F, beware of silent checks and how did you get your car home???????
Always strikes me as ironic why the Police become tax collectors for the DVLA in respect of Road Tax and yet not for say TV licences!
Fullchat
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Fullchat,
of Road Tax and yet not for say TV licences!
A couple of unlucky punters were nicked over the Christmas on no bail warrants for not paying the fines on their TV licences. I have a sneaky admiration for the cops on this one taking some serious players out of the game with some tactical arresting on a Friday when there was no Court til the Tuesday that would handle them...Hope they enjoyed their microwaved turkey.
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More than one way to skin a cat!
Anyway I have only just found this to share with the backroomers. Bit of a go at ourselves really. But if you cant laugh at yourself?
www.speedkuff.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm
Fullchat
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"Yes F, beware of silent checks and how did you get your car home???????"
For once*, absolutely squeeky clean ociffer!
The previous owner arranged for it to be delivered to my home - didn't see it arrive so can only assume it was (ahem) unloaded from a trailer.
* Naturally, this will be the occasion when someone has a go.
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Good answer! Like "My lights were ok before I set off I checked them!"
Fullchat
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Sorry - should have been clearer. The camera reads the plate rather than look for the tax disc and try to read that. Fail dispaly is unlikely to be picked up by an automated system. Still an offence though and a little known fact that the first ticket issued on the Extended Fixed Penalty scheme in the 80s was for such an offence.
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My MoT cert expired a couple of days ago so it was off to a booked appointment today.
On the way home I passed through / by an active ANPR van together with a manned coned off lane ahead for further questions.
It was on the A312 South of Heathrow, an area that ANPR vans are often seen.
With my new manual MoT cert on the passenger seat I was expecting to be waved down but nothing happened.
My tax and insurance are all correct so I guess according to the computer I am not bad enough to stop.
Nobody was being spoken to at the time so I can only assume they must be quite selective in who they stop.
I was all ready to argue with the computer data.
The van was marked CCTV etc. and had an extendable mast poking out of the roof.
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Until all MOT stations are computerised, then they still have no central record of MOT's for all cars.
I'm not sure the ANPR vans are checking insurance yet either. The sooner the better though.
Martin
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