PS - just re-read your post; I'm wondering if April might be too early to get the best out of both these places. I've only ever been in the height of summer. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to advise you on this......
Carole
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1. As has been said already, expect the unexpected and keep clear of taxis, the drivers are all mad. If you really want to adopt Greek driving techniques make sure you have a mobile phone in one hand and a cigarette in the other with your left elbow out of the window.
Perhaps we've been lucky but I must say, with much wood touching, We've never been involved in an accident or seen anything major. The lack of rules or the implementation of them, makes for few delays but since they have joined the EEC, I wonder how long it will be before the traffic lights start to appear at every junction.
2. We always hire with one of the well known international hire companies before we go. The prices of the locals do seem cheaper but SWMBO likes to have everything sealed before we leave.
One problem is always insurance. Despite being assured that there is nothing else to pay, we are usually asked for another one hundred Euros or so to reduce the excess. No matter how we try over the years, we haven't found any Company that will be up front about this at the time of hire. I've got a theory that it's the perk of the local agent.
3. Can't help you with this, we normally go to the Islands.
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Woohoo! No more lurking: finally a subject I know something about ;)
1.
a) Avoid the centre of Athens. If you fly to Athens, rent a car from one of the majors the airport, even though it's more expensive. You can then use the Attiki Odos (Athens Ring Road, Toll) to get you started in the right direction without having to brave the centre. Not much fun at all and there's really no need to take a car anywhere near the centre unless you're staying there *and* you know you've got somewhere to park the car.
b) On any road in Greece where there are "n" lanes in a given direction there will be "n+1" cars travelling in that direction. So, on a single carriageway road there will be, at times, four cars abreast - two in each direction. On the motorways, such as they are, the hard shoulder is a lane. Well, it's not really, but that's how it's treated. Accordingly, if you're driving in the inside lane, expect to be passed on both sides.
c) Billsboy's right: taxi drivers are the principal enemy - and yes, this is the mindset you lapse into, very quickly :-o.
d) Most motorway toll booths have traffic police stations attached to them. Instead of patrolling, the police tend to randomly pull motorists exiting the near-side booths. Use those further away to avoid this.
e) Don't wave to acknowledge anybody - showing the palm of your hand and five fingers is equivalent to flipping someone the bird. Not what you intended to convey and is likely to start something. If someone does let you out of a turning - it does happen a couple of times a year - then the best policy is not to acknowledge it. Believe me, the locals won't if you let them out... it's a sign of weakness, you know ;)
f) NoDosh's comments on performance idiots are spot on - though the worst examples are largely confined to Athens. Underfloor neons, fog lights, mobile phone use, speeding etc. But there will always be a Saxo/106/Taxi driver anywhere in the country prepared to chance his arm (and by implication, yours) by pulling some ridiculous stunt. HGVs and buses aren't much better - except that when they get it wrong extremely unpleasant things happen.
g) Following a (typically) nasty accident in which seven school children died on their way to attend the closing ceremony of the Paralympic games in September there has been something of a crackdown on driving behaviour - particularly in the county of Attica (Athens). "Crackdown" isn't really the right word - just that the police are now doing something about the most blatent infractions.
h) Speed cameras - very few fixed sites and being film based they are, on average, only live for about three hours before using up their film... and since central and local government has been arguing over who pays for the films they're going mostly unloaded. Same applies for the few bus lane cameras in Athens city centre.
i) Expect road signs to be i) in Greek - though in tourist regions there is normally a latin alphabet translation; ii) placed either before or after the junction they refer to; iii) shot to pieces (especially on Crete); iv) unlit and v) have placenames spelt inconsistently
j) Traffic lights: Greek drivers always proceed beyond the traffic light to straddle the pedestrian crossing and, since most junctions don't have repeater lights, need someone behind them to hoot when the light has actually turned green.
and above all:
k) Drive like you do in the UK. It'll make you feel superior and, crucially, will help keep you alive. Don't descend to their level. Oh, and do use your horn a lot - otherwise they'll realise you're foreign and attempt to take advantage accordingly :)
2.
a) If you pre-pay for the hire car , make sure you take all your paperwork with you and insist on the hire company sticking to the price without adding any "extras". And believe me, even the majors will try it on.
b) Locally hired vehicles are likely to be of a very low standard and it's not unknown to have to leave your passport with local rental outfits as some form of security - as if you'd want to keep their deathtrap... This can then cause hassle when hotels, plod etc. want to see the passport.
c) Rent the largest vehicle you can - it's very much dog-eat-dog. Drivers *do* give way to larger vehicles. Don't, however, get a BMW or Mercedes as you'll be expected to get out of the way to protect your car...
d) Seatbelts and crash helmets, for bikes ;), are legal requirements despite appearances. Make sure whatever you rent is suitably furnished with them. Don't laugh...
3.
a) I notice you're planning to go in early April. Orthodox Easter is 9-11 April next year and around this time huge numbers of cars will make a mass exodus from Athens and Thessaloniki to the rest of the country. ISTR that it was approximately 2.5 million cars on the Thursday before Easter last year and the same returning on the following Monday. The motorway "network" can't cope at the best of times and the queues are horrendous. Such is the volume of traffic that the toll-booths on the motorways are generally shut, the government forgoing the richest pickings of the year in an attempt to maintain some sort of flow! Best to avoid travelling on these days if possible or to ensure that you're journeying in the opposite direction to the "flow". That said, Easter in Greece is quite some experience and it's worth experiencing, even in Athens.
b) If you fancy the Peleponissos then you could do worse than to explore Messinia, Mani and Lakonia. If you would like further pointers, let me know.
c) Carole's right about Meteora being worth the trip - though I wouldn't say it was too far to drive yourself - though it does involve a long section of the national road where it deteriorates into a single carriageway free-for-all. Delphi is a lovely place to visit as well - best to stay at the ski resort of Arachova which is well equipped with hotels etc. or below Delphi in Itea.
d) Weather in April is generally good - although it's much more changeable than the summer. It will rain but should be sufficiently warm unless you are heading to the mountains.
Hope this helps...
Mark.
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Fantastic Alpha Dio,
Welcome in from the darkness :o)
No Do$h - Alfa-driving Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
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Thanks all.
Mark, that was extremely helpful.
Oddly enough, I had just prepaid with Europcar before you posted. Afraid I opted for the smallest size car. I've always been parsimonious. Do I understand that I should refuse any other kind of insurance Europcar offer me at the airport?
Thanks for the tip about Orthodox Easter. Oddly enough, we planned to be in Athens that weekend, arriving on the Friday. (We fly home on Monday 11th) What are the advantages and disadvantages of being there at that time? I guess it's too much to hope that it will be completely deserted :-)
I also guess I'd better make sure my accomodation in Athens has car parking - as well as being cheap!
I was wondering about Kardamili or Stoupa as a base. Any comments?
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Just checked my diary. It says Orthodox Easter this year was April 11, Orthodox Easter 2005 is May 1.
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If you want to take out any additional insurance that's up to you - but make sure that you know exactly what you're getting over and above that which you have prepaid for. I have a feeling that Europcar's SuperCDW is only payable locally and if you *are* driving into central Athens then it would be a good idea to take that out for peace of mind.
Cheap accommodation and car parking. Hmmm... a non-starter, I'm afraid. Everyday, 2.5 million cars descend on Athens' 1.25 million legal parking spaces. Quart, pint-pot etc. There is no space *anywhere* in the city. If you do manage to get a space then there is a real risk of getting the car bumped as not an inch is wasted in parking.
I would strongly argue that you don't need a car in central Athens at all. Athenian public transport is excellent, by our standards, and covers all the areas you're likely to want to visit. I'd be tempted to return the car to the airport early (or change the booking) and rely on public transport for the weekend. More information on routes, maps etc. can be found at www.oasa.gr - you may have to hunt to find the link that switches the site into English, though ;) A day card for public transport costs ?2.90 - including one way coach travel to or from the airport.
With regards to Stoupa and Kardamyli: I know both of these very well as they're just down the hill from my wife's home village of Kastanea. Both are very nice and have decent places to stay and eat. One of the local residents ensures that the British are particularly welcome here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Leigh_Fermor and his book on Mani is well worth a read.
It's a very pleasant drive from Kalamata to Kardamili but for variety on the way back, head south to Areopoli before turning inland to Sparta and back to Tripoli.
Motoring link (so as not to turn this into a travelogue): The Athens-Corinth-Tripoli motorway stops at the foot of some mountains and then makes a pair of fantastic climbs and descents before reaching Kalamata. Because of the amount of agricultural and goods traffic on this road you need to take great care on this part of the road. Greek driving patience being what it isn't you'll encounter all sorts of muppets trying to get past each other - not that your 1.0 litre Corsa will be doing any of the overtaking ;). Fantastic scenery, though - particularly on the descent into the ironically named Megalopoli.
Hope this helps...
m.
p.s. Must have been suffering from some sort of pre-Christmas brain fever yesterday - I've already booked our trip for Easter so I do know when it is next year. Honest :-o
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Apologies for replying to my own post and all that - I remembered that I'd omitted an important point - possibly not that relevant to the OP's circumstances but anyway...
Downtown Athens is delimited by the "Daktylio" (Greek for "finger") an area in which access to cars is restricted between the hours of 8am and 8pm (including weekends) according to the date and your car's license plate - Odd dates, odd license plates only and vice-versa.
This restriction was invented to cut down on congestion and the environmental impact of cars in the city centre. The net result, however is somewhat predictable:
1) People who live in the city centre (or can otherwise afford to) have bought an additional car so that they can drive on the other dates - car dealers in the city do a brisk under-the-table business in ensuring that you get an appropriate number plate to complement your existing car. This means that even more of the valuable car parking spaces are occupied (our excuse is having two garaged spots for the cars...)
2) Everyone else gives two fingers to the "finger" and ignores the rule and knows the rat-runs, provided on request ;), that will avoid the regular police patrols.
This rule does not in general apply to rented cars or foreign-plated cars (another opportunity for dishonesty) - however, as I understand it, it *does* apply to rental cars that are registered in Athens - having a registration that looks like Yxx nnnn. The rule is suspended at peak holiday periods and for the entirety of August.
m.
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Thanks
It's good to have so much info on driving in Athens. It's just about persuaded me not only that I'd be daft to try it, but also to actually do the sensible thing!
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Just back from Greece. Thanks all, for your comments.
We had lovely holiday, and the driving was pleasant and relaxing. Hire car was a 1.2 Clio. Had 69,000 km on the clock when I picked it up, which I thought rather high for one of the majors, but it did fine (though did develop some sort of noise - I think from a tyre or wheel). I added another 1400 km in 9 days, and, following advice above, returned the car early and didn't take it into central Athens.
Maybe I was lucky, but driving standards did not seem to be much worse than the UK.
Two things, however, puzzled me.
1) There was a busy junction in one town with no traffic lights or indication of who had priority. The rule simply seemed to be "Proceed with caution, and every man for himself." It seemed to work, but . . .
2) What does a double line down the middle of the road mean in Greece? Drivers seemed to cross them while overtaking all the time, and I could understand this, as double lines appeared in places where visibility was quite sufficient for overtaking, and where there would not have been solid double lines down the centre of the road in the UK. I would have assumed that a double line was simply a way of marking the middle of the road, except that, very occasionally, one of the lines would be broken, or (very, very occasionally) there would only be a single broken line down the middle of the road.
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The Greek word for tyre is "Elasto". Believe you me I've had to buy a few!!
Along with a full check of the bodywork check the tyres for damage. Some of their roads are well rough and as per normal customers do not treat their hire cars as they would their own.
If you suffer a puncture due to someone elses abuse and it is unrepairable you pay for a new tyre.
Also make sure there is a servicable spare, jack and brace. Some areas are somewhat remote if you get the wanderlust.
Fullchat
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