Why do we still call them wheel nuts? This thread reminds me of another example from a classic car maintenance couse in Durham many years ago.
Car, Ford Corsair, wobbling coming from front of car at certain speeds.
Inspection of front of car, suspension, steering brakes all OK. Remove hubcaps, ask young driver, have you changed any wheels recently?
Yes, had a flat so put the spare wheel on the rear drivers side.
The wheel nuts had been put on backwards. Old style wheel nuts have a conical side to centre the wheel on the hub stud as it is tightened. These wheel nuts had been replaced with the conical side outwards so the wheel could move around on the studs.
One good reason for recent use of bolts into a threaded hole for wheel attachment. Even if it is more difficult to singlehandedly hold the wheel in place while getting the first bolt in place.
StarGazer
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"It's sad to see how many of the replies to this post are about women and their knowledge of basic car maintenance (or lack of it)"
Just to balance it up a bit, my brother bought 306 estate a couple of years ago. I asked him what size engine it had - he didn't know, I asked whether it was petrol or diesel, he said he didn't know, I asked what fuel he put in, he said unleaded so I said it was petrol to which he replied that as far as he was concerned it could be unleaded diesel, he just used the pump that said "unleaded". He then added "Look, our kid, stop asking me complicated questions, it's a car, it goes, what more do I need to know." He has no interest in cars at all, as you might have guessed.
I also work with a guy who in the last few years has had to have "2 new engines" (his words) because he can't be bothered to check oil level.
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"Why do we still call them wheel nuts?"
What do you (or should we) call them then?.
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What do you (or should we) call them then?.
GB version: wheel bolts
EU version: mechanical propulsive structure retention means
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Wheel to hub threaded retaining bolt with conical mating face.
(thats a WHTRB/CMF)
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"Why do we still call them wheel nuts?" What do you (or should we) call them then?.
(pedant mode on)
Well, every car that I have owned since about 1986 has had wheel
bolts.
Older cars had four wheel hubs with 4,5 or 6 threaded studs. The wheel was placed over the studs and 4,5 or 6 nuts (things with threaded holes through the centre) tightened on the studs holding the wheel in place. ie "wheelnuts"
Since 1986 every car that I have owned has a hub with 4,5 or 6 threaded holes. The wheel is held in place with holes in the wheel alighed with the holes in the hub and special bolts (thing with a hex head andthreaded stud attached....definitely no hole) poked through the hole in the wheel and into the threaded hole in the hub. ie "wheel bolts"
(pedant mode off)
Stargazer
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My 1999 VW Passat is the first car I've owned which uses wheel bolts.
My two previous cars, a 1987 Cavalier and a 1991 Rover 214 both had studs and nuts. As does the girlfriend's 1999 Fiesta.
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"Well, every car that I have owned since about 1986 has had wheel
bolts."
Oh ok, I thought you were going to say "lug nuts" as they do in the US or something else.
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Well, every car that I have owned since about 1986 has had wheel bolts.
>>
I have yet to see wheel bolts on any of my family cars.
My 98 Mondeo has wheel nuts so I assume that all Mondeos up to 2000/1, when the model changed, are the same.
The 99 Focus and 99 Yaris the same.
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1973 Mk1 Escort Galvanised wheel nuts and hubcaps (stainless steel that only cover the central part of the wheel)
1986 Mk2 Ford Fiesta....wheel bolts and wheel coveres
1991 Mk3 Fiesta unknown....stolen before I had the chance to check!
1996 Holden Barina (VX Corsa) Wheel bolts
1998 Subaru Outback Wheel bolts
2000 Volvo V40 wheel bolts
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"Why do we still call them wheel nuts?" What do you (or should we) call them then?.
strange mucky things which we leave the boys to deal with :)
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Why do we still call them wheel nuts? .......
Remove hubcaps......
Why do we still call them hubcaps? They're nave plates. The hubcap covers the end of the hub, not the centre (or nave) of the wheel.
Sills/cills are correctly called rocker panels.
Dashboards are correctly called fascia panels.........
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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I hate bolts.
On a dark wet night, holding the wheel in place and lining up the holes is a nightmare!
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> It's sad to see how many of the replies to this post are about women and their >knowledge of basic car maintenance (or lack of it).
Fair complaint and it is important to note that lack of basic knowledge is not a problem of a particular gender, which is why everyone wanting a driving license should have to demonstrate basic knowledge. Male friends of mine have done the following boneheaded things over the years: opened hot radiators, overfilled the crankcase, ran the crankcase dry ('why does the oil warning light stay on?' he asked) added windscreen washer to the radiator reservoir. I do not consider these to be stupid people, just average guys with average cars and an average lack of concern.
Those posting here who worry about the physical ability required to change a tire should worry less. Knowing how to inflate a tire that is low is one thing; changing a flat, in the rain, on the motorway, at night is a good reason to join a roadside recovery scheme like the AA.
Bromptonaut: It is easy enough to let some air out of the tire while trying to secure the pump valve to the tyre valve. The lady I helped had read the instructions, but, without the experience, she really did not know what she was doing. Until you have to read a real dipstick or secure a real pump valve or do anything else, it is hard to know what to expect. Training and testing in the basics should be standard.
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Don't want to tell everyone that they should reason like this, but here is how I see it:
Given that I ensure that my girlfriend's car and my own are well-maintained, I consider breakdown cover to be poor value for money. It seems like a lot of money to pay to for insurance against a very small risk. I've been quite lucky I suppose and in 5 years / 200,000 miles of motoring I've never had a puncture. I'm sure their most common call-out is for punctures, and given that my girlfriend and I can deal with 95% of punctures (good points about busy roads at night, I hadn't really though about that prospect), I think our use of such a service would be little to none.
Sure, it comes into it's own if you suffer catastrophic mechanical failure. Hopefully that won't happen seeing as I try to maintain the cars as best I can. I'm a great advocate of doing as much servicing as you can yourself - asides from saving money, the only way you can be sure a task has been completed correctly is to do it yourself.
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Re wheel nuts being tightened too much by fitters. Don't use any tyre supplier that does not use a torque wrench. They can use an air wrench to take them off, but not put them on.
Tips for removing overtight wheel nuts/bolts.
Put the brace on the nut horizontally in a position that to loosen the nut you need to push the brace up. Put the jack under the end of the brace and pump slowly up to loosen. Move the car as neccessary to get each nut into the best position.
Put the brace onto the nut pointing downwards at about 45 degrees with the end on the ground, then drive the car VERY carefully forwards so that the end of the brace is forced onto the ground. You do need to work out which way the wheel and nut are going to turn of course.
Both of these methods have got me going in the past.
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Re wheel nuts being tightened too much by fitters. Don't use any tyre supplier that does not use a torque wrench. They can use an air wrench to take them off, but not put them on.
Hello Grumpy Old Git, Old Banger speaking... is it still the case that over-tightening wheel nuts or they there new-fangled bolts, what are for cheapness and not engineering excellence, that it is possible to have the conical nut spread out and enlarge the 'ole in the wheel, so that the nut "bottoms" and
does not secure the wheel properly?
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Graham,
I've run new & nearly new BMWs for the last 8 years. They have always been serviced by the book and are looked after. I was thus inclined to think along the lines you set out. Indeed, last spring my new car was not going to be available in time before the "free" three years breakdown cover provided with all new BMWs expired. I very nearly didn't take out any alternative cover.
I am glad that I did, as 30 days later a freak failure of an engine camshaft sensor left me in the outside lane of the M40 at (cough) 70mph with no power. The RAC were, for the record, slow but excellent once they got going.
This means that in those 8 years, I have had two callouts, being this callout, a rare failure that left me stranded. The other was the puncture described above.
I do think that AA/RAC/whatever cover is worth it.
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A rare and ironic sequence of events!
But compare the cost of 8 years AA/RAC premiums to the one-off cost (twice in your case) of recovery by the nearest garage...
Fair enough if the cover's bundled with the car - I'd take it. My point was that I don't consider that the risk / cost ratio justifies purchasing breakdown cover in my case.
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Fair enough if the cover's bundled with the car - I'd take it. My point was that I don't consider that the risk / cost ratio justifies purchasing breakdown cover in my case.
I don't know the policies of individual companies regarding abuse of the service, but I would guess that membership is a boon for some drivers with old cars. What does the AA/RAC small print say about excessive call-outs? Do any of the companies (since neither seems to be an 'association' or a 'club') have a 'no call-out discount' or variable membership rates pegged to age of car?
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I take your point Graham, but I take the opposite view. I pay for the RAC for myself, wife, son and daughter. It's expensive at about £250 per year but it includes continental and the full works. I five years I think we have only called them out once when a stone went through my daughters radiator one dark, wet night on the M1. The RAC were there in 10 mins and effected a temporary repair to get her home. I think the piece of mind that the £250 brings to ensure that she was not stranded is/was worth it. Also taken into account is the potential costs/problems if any of us had breakdown etc when on a trip to the continent.
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at renewal a simple call to say that you can get cheaper quotes elsewhere will result in a discount being offered, even if you are happy dont renew without trying this
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Some people have a trick for getting a free trip to the other end of the country, a few students I used to know did it quite often:
Drive onto motorway with nearly empty tank and an empty wallet. Car conks out in a couple of miles. Call whichever breakdown service you're a member of. Normally they'd recover you to the nearest filling station. But, no money to buy fuel equals recovery to destination!
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But compare the cost of 8 years AA/RAC premiums to the one-off cost (twice in your case) of recovery by the nearest garage...
Well, in fact I ony paid for one year because the other 7 were included in the prices of new cars.
But even then, there is a benefit in having a number that I know I can call, and a firm that promises to come and get me. I don't know who to call if I am stranded somewhere unfamiliar.
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I used to teach aero-engineering to young servicemen, mainly in their late teens/early twenties. Part of the course included undercarriage wheels etc. with the inevitable description of the Schrader valve. Puts picture on screen - " Now you've all seen one of these haven't you?" Several blank looks. "OK Carruthers, did you never pump up your bike tyres?" The answer in many cases was "No." Apparently Dad or even Mum did it. When we started attacking (retired, fortunately) aeroplanes with implements of destruction it often became all too apparent that the principles of screwing things up clockwise had also not been encountered. And when these things were upside down, well, you can imagine the rest. One day I came across a lad (not one of the trainees) with the bonnet of his car up, balefully studying the engine beneath which was a spreading pool of oil. He had been trying to top up the engine oil through the dipstick hole.
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I wouldn't blame anyone for calling the AA / RAC etc., but I do think some basics are a good thing to include in the driving test. It can't hurt to know why you shouldn't tonk up the motorway on a partially inflated tyre, can it? I would say that disabled drivers should be exempt from the more practical stuff though! As for the male / female debate, there are plenty of strong, capable women out there. Don't see a reason for any difference in treatment, myself...
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The show me/tell me basic maintenance questions introduced into the driving test a few years ago are a bit of a farce. If the examiner asks the candidate to open the bonnet and the candidate replies that he/she does not know how, then he/she is allowed to ask the driving instructor or accompanying driver to open it for him/her. This is not recorded as a fault on the examiners marking sheet. If no-one is available to perform this task and the "show me" test has to be discontinued, it is marked as one driving error by the examiner. As fifteen driving errors (errors of a minor nature) are allowed, this is highly unlikely to influence the result of the test.
If the candidate does not close the bonnet properly, the examiners are allowed to secure the bonnet themselves, and this will not result in any fault being recorded. The DSA are unable to make this part of the test any more comprehensive, because it could, and undoubtably would result in accidents happening when someone without any competence started fiddling round with a hot engine.
This part of the test is farcial, introduced unwillingly by the DSA who were under pressure to comply with the proposed EU standard for driving tests, and introduced the minimum possible standard. If they were serious about basic maintenence being a licence requirement, they could have made learner drivers take a short basic maintenence course as a condition of obtaining a full licence.
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Nicolle is a wimp. (Nicolle is perfectly entitled to decide that she doesn't want to go ANYWHERE near oil & grease, it is her perogative. That's why the AA exist. I would call the AA if i were in my suit & it were raining. Money well spent.)
9 stone. I don't weight 10% more than that! 126 pounds. A 12 inch namby-pamby wheel bolt bar gives 126 foot pounds. A 24 inch mansize bar gives 252 foot pounds. A supersized bar at 36 inches, such as any dutiful husband would buy for his wife (would carry in the car himself, anyway) would provide 378 foot pounds. Given a wheel blot is likely to be done up to 70ish ftlb, that gives a margin of 4 times for those fools at the tyre place to overtighten the bolts (or for the operative not to have to stand on the end of the breaker bar!).
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I doubt Mrs Lawman could do any of this stuff, I have always had to fill up washer fluid, pump up tyres, add oil etc. I tried to get her interested in learning how to change a wheel but she didn't want to know. She has a mobile, and said she would just call me! Not much use if she breaks down in the middle of Norfolk and I am miles away...
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Why should someone learn who doesn't want to ?
Ok, there is a duty to ensure that your vehicle is safe and roadworthy, but what's that got to do with it ? And other than the most obscure circumstances how is forcing someone to learn how to check their oil going to keep it roadworthy ? And even if you force them to learn, how can you force them to do it ?
Or should the next step to bring in endorsements and fines for people who don't check their own oil ?
Just because some either genuinely enjoy doing it or feel all smug about doing it doesn't mean other people should.
I couldn't tell you when I last checked the oil on any vehicle, and it will be a cold day in hell before I ever check it again - or water - or brake fluid - or any other fluid, or anything else that involves lifting the bonnet with the possible exception of putting water in the washer bottle - and I do mean "possible".
And there is absolutely stuff all chance of me going anywhere near them with a spanner or screwdriver. If the car gets a puncture, there are people who will accept money to resolve that issue. And I would rather they were out there getting cold, wet and dirty with traffic whizzing 2 cm from their ear than any possibility of it being me or mine.
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Mark,
Up to a point I agree with you, particularly changing a wheel on a motorway.
As for regular checks, I'm not bothered if you or anyone doesnt want to check fluid levels. But if the screenwash runs out on a long solo trip on the motorway it is simple to stop at the next services and top it up....if you at least know how. Are you saying call the AA/RAC/etc out to fill the washer bottle.
You may not want to do it all the time but you should at least know how to do it.I think that there is a basic level of knowledge which anyone on the road should at least have an idea of.
My wife and I drove for many years before mobile phones and in areas where there is still no mobile coverage. It was either walk or at least know how to change a wheel.
StarGazer
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try getting the aa or rac to change your wheel on glastonbury weekend with every knackered car in the country decending upon one place, and every aa and rac patrol and garage breakdown truck for miles already too busy
tell me you wouldnt just do it yourself?
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Stargazer, in some parts under the southern cross, its know the basics or DIE!
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>>Stargazer, in some parts under the southern cross, its know the basics or DIE!
Well, I guess that's it then. What better reason do we need to change the UK driving test ?
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Mark I shall be very cross if I am stuck in this terrible winter you have promised us, and you cant come come and tow me out.
"Sorry RF not tonight *washing my hair/cant see through the windscreen cos i cant add water to the washer bottle"
*delete as required.
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*steaming windows up with Dave and Alan/Buying a new Burberry cap*
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Adam
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Stargazer, in some parts under the southern cross, its know the basics or DIE!
Yes, I lived in one for 5 years! 100 miles to the next major town. I could be lucky and pass a couple of cars on that road some days.
But even in the UK, 20 miles from Oxford in the Cotswolds there is limited phone reception and some of the quieter roads it could be over an hour before the next car comes along. Maybe 6 miles to the nearest house.
Do you walk in the rain/dark/cold, wait for god knows who in the next car that may or may not stop?
No, you change the wheel.
I am not against people who dont want to change the wheel, but making the case that people should at least know the basics so that they could help themselves if required.
StarGazer
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>>But even in the UK, 20 miles from Oxford in the Cotswolds there is limited phone reception and some of the quieter roads it could be over an hour before the next car comes along. Maybe 6 miles to the nearest house.
Now that's actually a journey I do fairly frequently, specifically to a little village outside Broadway; but clearly you know a much more scenic route than I do.
Although your general point is well made, I still don't see why it should be in your driving test nor how it would make you a safer/better driver.
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Although your general point is well made, I still don't see why it should be in your driving test nor how it would make you a safer/better driver.
There is no direct connection between this sort of knowledge and either vehicle road-worthiness or driving safety. You might accuse me of wanting to force people to be prudent, but the lady I helped on Sunday was tearing her hair and seemed like she really, really wished she knew how to inflate a tyre. I think it is reasonable to think of a driving license as a license to operate a motor vehicle, with 'operate' construed widely enough to include some quite basic understanding of the machine one drives.
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OK, perhaps a shorter walk to somewhere the mobile reception does work (checking a map). The touble with living somewhere is that you tend to use the direct or traffic avoiding routes, be they minor or unclassified roads and not simply stick to the Trunk, A or B roads as you might do if unfamiliar with an area.
Perhaps not part of a driving test (Agree with Tom that the current practical test is flawed) but general education for 15,16-17,18 year olds. I had a fairly academic education (gave up metal/woodwork for physics etc) but as part of general studies we had several motoring awareness lessons. Videos of roadsafety, demonstration of braking distances in closed carpark by visiting rally driver, very simple under bonnet checks. This was for both boys and girls in the class.
StarGazer
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>>But even in the UK, 20 miles from Oxford in the Cotswolds there is limited phone reception and some of the quieter roads
>>it could be over an hour before the next car comes along. Maybe 6 miles to the nearest house.
I feel sure that many people think the mobile phone can be used anywhere in or near urban areas.
A pub I visit near Sonning Common, about 4 miles from Reading, has an extra feature apart from the lovely rural peaceful setting.
NO mobile phones work there, except satellite versions.
Last year I tested my phones on all 4 major networks and there was no reception.
So if you have a breakdown in the wee small hours in such an area I do know how well banging on the pub door will be received.
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>>A pub I visit near Sonning Common
The Bird in Hand ? I can't think of anywhere else that would be described as "near Sonning Common". Unless you're talking over the back towards Tokers Green.
I've not been in the Bird since Wendy Walton left about 20 odd years ago. But I still mooch over sometimes, although I usually get as far as Stoke Row and then remember loads of different pubs which seem a good idea - tends to be distracting.
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Totally agree about roadside maintenance but keeping an eye on oil / water levels etc isn't too much to ask.
Our fleet management info does remind us that these are our responsibility and an engine failure due to lack of oil will not be regarded very favourably.
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And whenever I have hired a van it usually states somewhere on a sticker or in the small print that it is the driver's responsibility to check oil and water levels daily - so perhaps a good idea to know how to do it (even if you don't actually do it!)
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Based on some that I have tried to get to do own checks. This includes men. They really do not want to get under bonnet. they want someone else to..Cry is usually cars are too complicated. bearing in mind many have never had bonnet up..Let alone check the tyre pressures..I dont see any benefit in including this into driving test. as most may learn. But still not bother afterwards..For some its below them to do this..My SIL is one.She knows what to do but wont.dont realy see what can be done with attitudes like that?
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Steve
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My biggest technical ignorance blooper was with our VW Golf Mk 3 1.4.
Now, I might have fiddled with cars since I was a teenager, I've tackled various medium sized jobs on the old Land Rover 90 I used at the time, but I'd never paid much attention to the Golf.
When it had some sort of engine problem I asked the mechanic to check the carburettor. He said he thought all Golf Mk 3 1.4's had fuel injection. I said 'no, this one's got a carb'.
But on closer inspection it's got single-point fuel injection into a sort of 'body' in the induction plumbing. Well, almost a carburettor, or at least it looks like one!!!!
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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Single-point injection isn't really much more than an electronically controlled carburettor anyway...
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Some years ago.
Keith's Garages.
Aylesbury.
Witnessed a woman putting oil in the expansion tank, slightly scalding herself in the process. Turns out her husband had died (like mentioned in a previous thread) and she didn't have a clue what to do. I felt truly sorry for her, and helped, and have also since taught my own wife certain basic checks. Also like mentioned in a previous thread however, I don't trust her with the jack, so have not tried to teach her how to use it.
BTW, in an inverse manner, this thread reminded me of my bro every time his PC or laptop crashes and needs my help to recover(a frequent event):
"I drive a car and don't have one iota of knowledge about how it works. I've driven such complex machines for hundreds of thousands of miles, and nothing has ever failed. Why on earth do you therefore suggest that I need to learn some basics about the Windows operating system?!"
My comment that at least he took a driving test (so knows how to use the basic controls) and pays someone to service the car once in a while (unlike the PC or laptop what get no attention at all and then ultimately fail) fell on deaf ears!
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LOL, I'll raise my glass to the day they make software as reliable as motorcars! As an erstwhile organiser and runner of conferences and meetings all over the world, there was always one constant: if anything went wrong it would be the techy bits, not the human ones.
Amazing that 30+ years ago man walked on the moon, can put a bomb down a Baghdad chimney from an aircraft carrier 600 miles away but "he" still can't (or doesn't want to) make a car that doesn't need its tyres and oil checking between services......which is how my totally car maintenance-free sister explains it.
Happy Saturday afternoons getting skinned knuckles and greased-up fingernails are increasingly a thing of the past, when necessity was the mother of invention and basic maintenance knowledge was acquired through painful experience in rainy wind-swept laybys in the dark, while the object of one's desires sat moodily examining her fingernails and plotting ways to make one's evening miserable.
Such is progress.
There's no real need to learn any more, so people don't.
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