Saw an abandoned 1997MY Mondeo this morning on a local road, clearly dumped there by it's owner, Even had a yellow sticker from the local council.
My question is can I help myself to any of the parts on it or indeed even hitch it up to a trailer and take the complete car?
there's plenty of things I could easily salvage as spares for my own Mondeos.
Technically it's theft I know...but from whom?
|
Never happened in the 60's.
Did you see Heartbeat last night? Lovely white Morris Minor convertible left by the roadside for at least 24 hours with boot and roof open and keys in the ignition, nobody touched it, they just kidnapped the driver instead. Mind, she had a not bad chassis too.
|
|
|
|
Theft. Persons or persons unknown would be wording of the charge. Don't touch would be my advise. Has been discussed here in the past.
|
|
|
Not even worth thinking about..
--
Steve
|
|
|
I had a car dumped outside the front door of my last house, the I day I put it up for sale. No one wanted to know about getting it moved. Fortune was on my side as someone tried to steal it at 3am. Phoned the Police and they were round in a couple of minutes. They arrested the theif and had towed the car away as evidence! Best bit was that the car had no coil so could never have been started.
So touch the car at your own peril.
|
So touch the car at your own peril.
It's been abandoned by it's owner so no-one owns it thats my point so I could claim it surely? You cannot steal something that does not have a owner. It will end up in a crusher no doubt anyway so why can't I claim it?
|
"You cannot steal something that does not have a owner"
But it does have an owner. The person who's abandoned it owns it. Either that or the person they nicked it off. Or the HP company, etc, etc.
V
|
|
|
|
|
I know a guy who had a newish moped dumped in his garden, reported it to the police who informed the owner, it was never collected, the owner clearly wanted the insurance money or a new moped. A year or so later this guy applies to the DVLA for ownership, gets reg docs in his name, has the steering lock replaced, has got a nice little moped worth a good few hundred quid.
|
Imagos
IIRC in the last thread about this subject PU mentioned he had a client who had been charged with stealing something out of a skip.
No one here can give better advice on this than PU.
So follow his advice and DON'T DO IT!
Unless you want your next thread to be entitled "Help! Been arrested for nicking bits from abandoned car".
Do we make ourselves clear?
Hugo
PS, there would be nothing to stop you making enquiries with the authorities as to how you could obtain it legally.
|
|
ok fair do's i'll leave it a that. Shame though.
|
ok fair do's i'll leave it a that. Shame though.
PHEW! :)
|
|
|
"Unless you want your next thread to be entitled "Help! Been arrested for nicking bits from abandoned car".
Hugo that Cornish sense of humour ---- ;-)
|
|
|
I know the feeling imagos. A few years ago someone left a old motocross bike (with a few bits removed from it) leaned up against a skip used by an apartment complex. figured it was being junked, but was too heavy to actually lift into the skip. For months the skip would be emptied and the bike left beside it as the collection people either didn't want to lift it or weren't sure if it was just parked there. Being an off road bike it had no registration or VIN number and no way of ever tracing the owner through the usual channels.
I contacted the police to see if I could "adopt" the poor thing and they told me emphatically NO. Only a garage or towing company could recover it, place a lien on it (to recover their expenses)and if not paid they could take steps to acquire ownership. They told me that if I were to remove the bike without the owner's permission it would be theft...plain and simple. I gave up hope and stopped checking if it was still there. I don't know what ever became of it.
|
Is there a way in which Imagos could legally get a few bits?
Report abandoned car to council, who send a contractor along to tow it away and have it scrunched. Contractor agrees to sell it to Imagos for a few bob.
Or even, report car to council, and Imagos offers to dispose of it without charging council too much?
|
|
Yes agreed with para 2. Para 3 might be more awkward as the Council probably has a contract with a local scrappie who will already regard the Mondeo as his (oh and his dog's)
|
|
My advice is LEAVE IT ALONE !
|
|
Ok then, so it would be illegal to take bits off a car thats been dumped on public land. But what if something is dumped on your own land? surely you could do what you want with it?
|
Unless its your 306dturbo that gets stolen and dumped on my back field. How would you feel about me having my way with it?. 8-)
|
|
My 306 is stuck on the drive waiting for a recon head so would'nt get very far. Most stolen cars tend to "dissapear" in this country, mainly because of the low price of second hand motors.
|
|
>>>My advice is
Gracious! Legal advice! On this site & for free.
;)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It has a "Police Aware" sticker on it and there are still bit's worth stealing?
Pull the other one.
Kevin...
|
I personally do not condone nor tolerate this kind of behaviour.
But if you do rob a few bits can you get me a drivers side headlamp!
|
I started a thread ages ago on this one, just out of interest, and the concensus then was, DON'T.
But it does occur to me, theft has to have an "intention permanently to deprive" ? So supposing you removed the car, but left a notice nearby, or an advert in the paper, saying, "found, small grey car... ", and a contact number for the "owner" to come and get it?
After a certain length of time it would then become yours?
Just asking out of mild interest - I certainly wouldn't relish getting embroiled in a legal case.
Am I risking prosecution for harbouring two abandonded cats, one rescued from a car park where it had been dumped under a hedge?
|
If you wish to make yourself really popular, I guess that towing the vehicle into the nearest police station and reporting it as found (lost by owner) they would have to record its receipt and after a suitable delay (and owner not traced) the found item becomes your property. Whether you have committed an offence by having the untaxed unisured vehicle in your possession for the period before you get to the police station must raise some interesting questions.
However when you come to collect the item just make sure you do it properly on a trailer etc etc. I can just see the queue waiting to book you on removal. I
If this started to happen on a regular basis think of the chaos that would arise.
pmh (was peter)
|
|
|
|
If you stumble across something apparently abandoned/lost, you can't just take it - car, money, briefcase etc. - it's theft by finding.
I believe you can take ownership of something when you've make a "reasonable attempt" to return it to its owner. In the case of the paperback book a classmate lent me back in my school days, probably looking him up in the phone book might be a "reasonable attempt". In the case of the 6 month old Jag "left" outside my house, that would probably not be a good enough attempt.
In almost all cases, no matter how worthless the item, I would be surprised if "no attempt at all" was enough of an attempt.
I asked my dad and brother (bobby and ex-bobby) about this exact thing, when someone abandoned a car identical to mine up the road. They said the best I could do was report it to the council, and while I was on the phone, ask them where they take abandoned cars.
I consdiered contacting the DVLA, asking who the owner was (there's a charge for this, but they'll tell you if you have a good enough reason - maybe "I want to buy the car" is good enough), and contacting the owner with the offer to get his car removed, in return for the V5 - but it was far too much hassle for the bit I wanted so I went to a scrappy and paid £10.
-Mark
|
Somebody wrote a letter to 'Practical Classics' asking a similar question.
Their reply was that under English law you can't be charged with theft by removing property that has been abandoned by it's owner.
|
So who do we go with? A bunch of pipe-smoking magazine types or a bunch of people from the police and legal profession?
Hmmm, toughy.....
|
Back in the mid nineties, one of my colleagues left his company Sierra in the office car park over the weekend, and when he came back on the following Monday, it was on bricks, minus four nice alloy wheels.
Parked next to it was a tatty Ford Escort - owned by a lad from the adjacent newsagent - that was now sporting the nice shiny (far too offset and oversized) alloys, complete with new tyres fitted just previously!
We thought "How can someone be so complacent and so dumb?", but Plod weren't even interested in showing up to ask a few questions. Of course the lad strenuously denied all charges when approached by my colleague, and got away with it, but I would at least liked to have seen a worldy wise constable have a crack.
|
|
You see where you went wrong there is in talking to the lad and not simply punching his lights out. THEN the police would have turned up.
|
|
|
|
Their reply was that under English law you can't be charged with theft by removing property that has been abandoned by it's owner.
Fine. POssibly, probaly -perhaps. You may well get cleared in Court or the CPS may discontinue. But is is it worth the hassle of being banged up by the Old Bill, possibly having your house truned over...not for me though. If it ain't mine I don't touch it - quite a simple rule to follow.
|
Om my way home tonight passed the road where car was (yes, past tense) It's gone. Council? Scrappy? who knows? (sighs of relief throughout the backroom!)
Wasn't me though. The interesting thing is though is/was the age of the car. It was either a P or R reg possibly one of the newest i've seen dumped. Anybody seen any newer?
|
I've kept out of this so far as I didn't want to spoil opinions, which are very interesting.
IMHO both sides of the camp are right. How do I know this. Well many, many moons ago I was on night shift travelling south on the A.1. in Hawkeyes neck of the woods. At the side of the other carriageway one old car that had been left broken down and had received attention from the Big Vehicles vultures. Sure enough, one such vehicle to its rear and Scroaty with spanners helping himself.
Quick "U" turn and pulled up behind him. Quick check of his cab and lttered with parts from said BDV. So felt his collar and charged him with theft from person, persons unknown. Keeper never established passed through many hands who did not notify change of ownership.
Came Court day much to my surprise Not Guilty plea entered and represented. Best bib and tucker on into box and spouted evidence etc.
Then for the defence came a most silvered tongue Solicitor (PU's grandfather?) who argued that there was no owner for the vehicle attacked and that it had been abandoned so there was no theft. (Old 1916 Theft Act... a person steals, who " without consent of the owner," fraudulently and without a claim of right...... The Bench agreed and threw the case out being influenced I later gathered because it had been previously picked over.
The decision of the bench made no change to Force policy and we still arrested persons so engaged and charged them to Court for Theft after a night in the cells and the idignity of being photgraphed/fingerprinted/anteceedents ( now DNA swabs). Up to them to come to Court and prove it wasn't theft.
As PU states, quite correctly, it just isn't worth the hassle.
DVD
|
DVD
What is your view on my post outlining a strategy of taking to the nearest Police Station as lost prperty?
It may be a wise move to lodge a letter first that proves your intentions. (Possibly at a different station).
pmh (was peter)
|
OOhhhhh groan...don't really want to get into this but..
Top of my head. How can you find something that isn't lost? Car occupies normal place on road where one would expect it to be?.
Police Property Act deals with found property and it is either, if of value, retained by Police and if after certain time, used to be 3 months, not claimed , finder was then offered the property as his on the condition if owner later came forward he had to return. Or, finder, where value was low, retained property from start but had to keep for the 3 months. Ignoring the implications of a poor pressed desk Serg having to find a pound from you vehicle you would no doubt get you a lug full at the least and collar felt at the most.
Problem could arise in your removal to said PS - the question of Insurance/Excise/MOT for despite being broken down under law it may well still be a vehicle.
Only lawful way I would suggest is to approach DVLA for keepers details and if they supply and you can trace (maybe LA/Police haven't put the same effort into tracing) do a deal.
DVD
|
|
|
|
|
|
