Yes folks, all good nominations from the past but who is going to speculate on those cars in production today which are the rust buckets of the future.
Are the modern protection methods going to make rust a thing of the past ?
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Presumably if someone misses a bit while training the paint spray robot it could still happen on any make, though I vaguely remember from school chemistry that galvanisation copes with limited exposed areas. How many non galvanised cars are still produced? The current Civic I think(?) What else?
To qualify as a rust bucket it would have to be something reliable enough for the rust to break out before the engine dies or you wouldn't care.
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".. if someone misses a bit while training the paint spray robot"
I'd forgotten that was part of the deal (visions of soon-to-be-ex BL paint sprayer teaching it very badly!). It's easy to think they're all as smart as the Citroen ones... :-)
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"Are the modern protection methods going to make rust a thing of the past?"
I've got a 15-year old (galvanised) Audi that still looks OK, but what will kill it is an expensive item needing replacement, especially if it's an MOT requirement. Happily, mine is pre-cat, but I imagine that a cat replacement would be uneconomic for most vehicles.
This means that most modern cars will go the scrappy with serviceable bodies and perfectly good engines, which is a shame.
What has long intrigued me is how some rust-buckets (like Minis) seem to survive far longer than their contemporaries. I also have a friend with a immaculate Rover 800 that must be nearly twenty...
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1979 3500 SD1 - bought seccnd hand in 1982 when rust and holes in wheel archs, door bottoms due to porus paint but worst of all rust at the front of roof causing firstly damp headling leading to structure failure at MOT time in 1984 that was so bad Rover paid for a new roof section and respray. But it was a lovely car to drive went everything was working properly.
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Mondeo apparantly - refer you to below thread (or above by now !)
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Fiat Regata estate
3 year old G reg bought from my uncle. Both rear passenger doors completely gone near their quarterpanel posts. ne was replaced and the other was just repairable.
Top edges of doors under the rubbers on ALL doors
Rear tailgate starting to go
Rear sill needed welding for MOT when it was 8 years old.
With that engine though it was fast.
Add to that, most fiats produced at that time or earlier.
H
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I had a Marina whose body appeared to have been manufactured from compressed rust.
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>>Mondeo apparantly
Yup, I agree there. The Fiesta is not that hard wearing neither. Seen a few 1995-1999 editions which are showing considerable amounts of the crusty stuff around their arches and sills.
How about the City Rover, haven't some people seen a few patches of rust on those?
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Jaguar XJ6 Mark 1
Jaguar XJ6 Mark 2
Jaguar XJ6 Mark 3 (early ones had apalling paintwork which came off round the wheel arches after 10k miles or less...)
All Vauxhalls up to and inclding Viva HA
Jaguar E Type... dreadfull sill rot...
ALL BL cars including Rover 800s (Rover P4 rusted badly but was so heavily built it just kept going)(I had a Montego wher the engine block kept shedding rust at an amazing rate: it peeled off. Minis were really badly built..subframes and rear mountings/shockabsorber turrets/floors/sills/wings/etc..
All Fiestas up to and including Mark 4 round the petrol filler cap (trapped dirt) and rear wheel arches. (Wax injection in Mark5)
All Fiats till Tipo which was galanised.
All Citroens till XM which was galvanised (the Mark1 XM still rusts in places)
All Rollls Royces/Bentleys post WW2 to Silver Spirit. (ever seen a Silver Shadow with no sills? Not a pretty sight:-(
All Lancias especially Betas - none left now I think:-)
Lotus Elan Mark1-4 chassis bodies.
VW Beetles.
For early rust in a model's life, nothing could beat the Vauxhall Velox and Cresta of the early 1950s.. I recall rear wings perforated and rust all along the rear windscreen / boot join- by far the quickest rusting in volume I've ever seen.
All Hillmans and Rootes especially Minxes and Imps.
madf
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I wonder how the current batch Lancias fare ?
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Does anyone have first hand experience of these rusting Lancias?
I have read a book by someone who sold them for a living that stories of engines dropping out because of rotting mounts were scare stories dreamed up by the tabloids, particularly the Mirror. He maintained that Lancias were no worse than any car of that era in this respect.
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I do know a couple of people who had them. I think the original Lancia Beta was recalled and bought back by Lancia. IIRC it nearly broke the company.
One of my Uni friends had one (on a v I think) and he was OK with it. It was around 8 years old when he had it.
Another car that can be added to this list is the Triumph Dolomite. I knew one person who had one since new. It was scrapped on its first MOT due to rust.
Don't even start on Datsuns! IIRC that was a car that was worse than the Lancia Beta.
On the point of Marinas, I saw an immaculate 1977 marina in Cornwall a few weeks ago. It was in that famous mustard yellow and it had not a scratch on it. I don't think it will ever make it to collector status, which I think is a shame.
Living in Cornwall I do see quite a few examples of older cars that have been kept going despite all the odds. The Cornish are a make do and mend race, you only have to see inside some of their homes. Nothing goes to waste. If it's not needed now, it's buried in the garden for future generations.
H
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1967 Hillman Hunter.
At its first MOT (i.e. 3 years old) it was found to have a hole in the floor, and a transverse box-section floor-strengthening member was almost entirely rusted away. Neither of these were apparent from a visual inspection, because the DIY applied underseal was still intact. The underseal was water based ~ Dunlop IIRC.
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Mk 4 Cortina was bad for rusting, any panel you care to mention! Metros and Sierras from the 80's were bad too, the were reports of discarded litter in the boots of metros that had simply been sprayed over! I'll predict that cars like perodua nippas wont hold up well.
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As far as current Lancias are concerned, the best comparison would be probably be with current Alfas, which seem OK. We sold a 164 about ten years ago and received a letter from the subsequent owner, when he sold it last year. It was worth next to nothing of course but he said it had been a super car and still looked great.
There are still a few Lancias around in the UK and I saw a Dedra a few days ago. Not a great looking car but there was no sign of rust.
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A lawyer friend of ours bought a Mark1 Lancia Beta in the 1970s just after they were launched. In less than 2 years the gearbox mountings collapsed due to rust. He bought a Volvo after that.
I looked at buying Lancia Fulvias. Lovely shape. Subframes wre all in advanced state of decay..The days when the Italian motor industry decided the world had a climate like Southern Italy. Salt on roads? Winter? Unheard of..:-)
And you want reliability?
madf
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My dad had one of the first Hillman Imps in the 60s by 2 years old you could see the road through the holes in the sills.
Rust is undoubtedly less of a problem with modern cars but I think that's partly because many are scrapped because of other things before they get to the rusting point which is probably about 10-15 years rather than the 3-5 years it was in the sixties.
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Well, just for balance, I did have a Lancia Beta HPE that was quite durable. Admittedly, it was a fairly late model, but it was one of the nicest cars I have ever owned - stylish, practical, comfortable and a hoot to drive. It actually lasted better (and was more reliable) than the VW Scirocco I bought afterwards...
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I own one of the last Dedra's sold in this country,I also live in Scotland,and its 100% rust free,(and a very,very good car)they were galvanised like Tipo's..Although I owned a Tempra before,and the floor and strut tops were rotten!. I also own 2 Fiat X1/9's,one of which is an '85,and the roll bar is gone completely,whereas I also have an '89,which is perfect here,but has no rear arches.My last one was a 1981,which was mint everywhere,and had done twice the mileage,but came from Bristol....With older Italian cars,its not rust traps that are the problem,its the quality of the metal in places...curiously,I've never had to weld a floorpan in an X1/9..
As an MOT tester,the amount of 1990's Fiestas I've sent to the scrappys make Fiats look pretty rustproof!Also '80,s and '90's Mazdas,especially the 323 and 626,front chassis legs mostly.Peugeot's and Renaults never seem to corrode,even though I've seen thicker tinfoil..? Also Mk3 Golfs seem to be prone to corrode,and I've already welded sills on a 1995,and 1996 mk 3 Polo.Never thought I'd see that.
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"The underseal was water based.."
Now there's a brilliant idea!
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>>Living in Cornwall I do see quite a few examples of older cars that have been kept going despite all the odds. The Cornish are a make do and mend race,
Also, I think that the mild maritime climate means that far less salt is used on your roads than elsewhere in the UK, so cars will last longer. Never buy a car from Scotland...
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FIAT 128 was my worst example, mine rusted everywhere even on the seat frames! It got to the point where I was reluctant to open the bonnet as there would be yet more rusting on structural members.
A friend had a 131 Mirafiori and had a full respray at 2 years old (company car) and was told then it woud fail an MOT due to rust.
Surprised no-one has mentioned the Alfasud!
Mark
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1979 Honda Civic
Superb car with a great engine and gearbox and the best trimmed interior of any small car then available.
Resprayed three times in eight years!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Just done a little tally so far and the leader with 6 nominations is Fiat.
I've put all the BL together and they score 6 also with 2 for Mini, and one each for Metro,Maestro, Marina and Rover.
Vauxhall come in with 5 ,
Hillman and Ford equal with 4
Lancia score 3
Holden and Simca with 2 each.
Fiat in the lead does not surprise me at all but I too am surprised that Alfa don't get a mention for the Alfasud or perhaps owners have blotted it out of their memory.....
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Perhaps there aren't that many ex owners of old Alfas in the forum. Certainly, the 70s Alfas rusted very quickly, but by the late 80s/early 90s they had begun to get their act together. I still see a few Alfa 75s that look pretty good.
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I forgot to mention Alfas: If I recall the AwfulSud rusted so quickly I never saw any:-)
madf
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In my spotty and callow days I had two Alfasuds, a 1.5 4-dr and a 1.5Ti. Neither rusted that badly actually, but the electrics left a lot to be desired. Certainly both survived at least until their sixth birthdays.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I owned one as well (for a while) superb car with corroded outriggers....
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any hyundai or kia 3 years or older!
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Recently sold a completely rust-free G reg Hyundai Pony.
How many Escorts, Cavaliers....BMW's? can you say that of?
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5 years ago I owned a H reg BMW 320i for 6 months . Absolutely rust free..
That's one for a start:-)
madf
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That would be a younger car, 5 years ago then?
(I'm not knocking Beemers by the way - they are probably as good as you can get. But where are all the G reg. ones now?)
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Lots of g reg cars will have gone to the scrappie with little rust but expensive to repair mechanical problems. By that age a repair bill of £300 for a gearbox for example would get it written off by most folks
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I've just spent a happy half hour browsing the Fiat sites looking at pictures of the 128 sport that are still going and reminding myself how much fun it was.
Did anybody else run one? It was a great fun car to drive.
I was reminded looking on the Fiat sites that Lancia was bought by Fiat in 1969 so they should be lumped together for the purposes of the total nominations putting them clearly ahead of BL.
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Indeed they were - didn't several of the Fiats have Lancia engines ?
I had a Fiat 128 3p - now that was a car and a half.
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> I had a Fiat 128 3p
Isn't that what it was worth when you sold it? ;-)
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1. 1959 Jaguar 3.4
2. 1967 Vauxhall Viva SL 90
3. 1976 Alfa Romeo Alfetta
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I had a Dolomite Sprint that needed new sills at 4 years old. Great to drive though. Also an MG Metro Turbo that had a perforated wing at 4 years old due to previous accident damage, replaced under corrosion warranty, that was in 1987, 6 year + corrosion warranties were in there infancy then.
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were in there infancy then.>>
Doh spelling! I mean 'their' not 'there'.
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Indeed they were - didn't several of the Fiats have Lancia engines ? I had a Fiat 128 3p - now that was a car and a half.
Cut and shut was it?
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In the last few months I've seen two late 70s Lancia Beta saloons near here (rural France) that appeared completely original and without a spot of rust. One was a one-owner, low mileage job that was for sale - but what would you do with it? In the late 80s I bought a five year old Beta HPE (the coupe/estate) that was also as clean as a whistle and one of the best cars I ever owned. Like a fool I eventually sold it to a guy who said 'name your price'.
The worst shock I ever had was to buy a 2-year-old Princess 2000 HL, to find rust coming clean through the front valance! That was it for British Leyland and me. Dumped it quickly at a huge loss and bought a nearly new second generation Honda Accord - the first with decent rustproofing - and never looked back...
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