The first and last time I sat in an E320 I was impressed - of course I was - it's a Merc but given it was 6 months old, there were a few things that I must say unimpressed me:
* Left Side Main Beam headlamp glass melted
* Right side paintwork under headlamp - non existent - looked like someone had poured turps on it - (they hadn't)
* Interior generally well screwed together although given it's a Merc, there were a few too many cheap plasticy bits (although given that these never broke, I don't suppose there's a problem)
* I think the problem is, how much they are - given you're spending all this money, (I gather this E class is around 30 grand new) you aren't getting fantastic quality. Maybe it was this particular Merc that was dodgy but I wouldn't have fancied buying it.
*Just remembered - the headlamps wouldn't turn off - I insisted to Dad this was not a fault - simply Mercedes Intimidate Mode.
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Adam
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I think the main issue with Mercedes, and to a certain extent all the other "premium" German marques is that mainstream cars, eg. Ford, Vauxhall, have closed the gap substantially in terms of build quality, reliability and equipment that people have begun to question what they're getting for their extra £7k when they buy a C class or an Audi A4 over a £16k Mondeo.
A customer of mine has just bought an ex-demo A4 TDi for £22k and readily admits the only reason he went for it over a Mondeo was the badge. In fact the local Ford dealer has an ex-demo Ghia X TDCi 130 for £15995 with Xenons, Parking Sensors and a DVD Sat Nav system plus usual Ghia X stuff like leather, air conditioned seats etc that are absent on the A4.
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Merecedes were said for years to be over-engineered, i.e. built better than they needed to be for what they had to do. Mercedes manufacturing costs were relatively very high, mainly because of efficiency issues but perceived also to be related to this over-engineering. There was a major progamme of cost reduction with MB adopting where possible the most efficient (cheapest) practices of other car makers.
To some extent they shot themselves in the foot - I imagine many customers bought MBs because they believed them to be over-engineered, rather than for performance, handling, or cutting edge technology, though clearly MB is also aiming to create appeal in those areas.
The A class certainly did nothing for the perception of quality and reliability either.
I think the the only reason to by MB now is because you'd like one - I can't think of any practical or economic reason. Probably just means I'm not in the target market!
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There will be a time when physical quality of all cars will be the same. Ultimately there is a limited number of ways to put a car together so mainstream makes will continually catch up. Everyone can get a car with AC, keyless entry and a CD player.
'Premium' cars (MB and BMWs) nowdays are nolonger exclusive. All luxury cars are mass produced.
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I strongly believe that, once you get above the basic issues, Quality is a perception rather than a measurable value.
We all know that Audi, VW and Skoda are subject to similar, if not the same, quality control and and similar materials and that time after time in reliability surveys the Skoda comes out top but if you asked 1000 people which was the best qulaity vehicle, what do you reckon the answer would be? Better still, ask 1000 people who have never owned or even ridden in one of these brands and I bet I know what the ranking would be.
Advertising is a wonderful thing (not)!
I would no more pay an extra several thousand pounds for an Audi over a VW or Skoda than I would buy a Rolex watch. The Rolex may be marginally better made but my trusty Timex (or whatever) does the same job and is cheaper to run and less attractive to thieves.
The whole quality perception thing is summed up by a phrase I hate: Bling Bling!
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Quality is, to a certain degree, perception, but if, throughout the ownership of your car or your watch, you percieve it to be of a desirable quality, then you will experience the "feelgood" factor and that is important element of ownership.
I agree that quality controls and the sturdiness of materials is similar within the same group, but there are variances between brands and depending upon where models are made. To my knowledge the E class has had no questions over it's built quality, but I've driven an A class and a few different C classes and each time have thought the interior very low rent and unforgiveably flimsy. The experience of the owners reveals that the lack of the attention to the build quality of the interior is mirrored in the quality of the mechanicals and electricals. It is the huge gap between expectation based on MB former reputation and reality which has made the MB quality such a talking point. MB's USP is reliable, luxurious and quality cars. When they fail on this front, they're in trouble. Audi and BMW have also suffered from some electrical and mechanical issues, but they have delivered on styling, driving and quality of their internal fit and finish.
It's absolutely fine to decide not to buy an Audi over a Skoda, a Rolex over a Timex, a heavy grade steel bath over a plastic tub, a Linn hifi over Goodmans boombox, a BIC over a Sheaffer Balance, trainers from Clarks rather than Nike Airs. They all do the same thing and if music or driving or bathing or whatever isn't your bag then why not go for the cheaper option, it's truly your choice? The V50 felt like a much better car in every respect than the Mazda 3 and yet they're both Fords on the same platform. I've driven several Skodas and sing their praises but I've driven their Audi counterparts and IME the overall drive is significantly more pleasing. It might be the quality of the interior, perceived or otherwise, the sound levels, the drive quality or various other factors, but whatever it is, it's a more enjoyable car to own and drive and comments from passengers have confirmed the difference. As it should be, since you're paying a considerable premium.
Likewise, basically my Alfa's a Fiat, same qulaity control and materials, but if chop it in for a Stilo, there's going to be rumblings from the family.
Let's face it a Moskovich or a Trabant will do the same job, but I don't see many takers here.
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10/10 for observation Cardew :) - that should've read "...far fewer 54 plate versions of the former than the latter...."
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Someone mentioned the business of old Mercs being perceived as over-engineered, and you can trace the decline back to that point. Not necessarily because someone in Stuttgart decided that if that was what people thought thre was clearly room for manoeuvre on the cost front, but because Mercedes had a change of tack strategically and deided to try to become al things to all people.
At its height, Merc was a three-model range - C, E and S and their predecessors, with the 4x4 G-wagen something of a specialist vehicle. These were all good, solid cars but often very basic in terms of trim and equipment.
Then Merc did the A-class, and fell over in ever sense of the word. It was a newcomer to this end of the market, the design was flawed but probably not cheap and I suspect oit has struggled to make money on it. Is it a good high-mileage secondhand buy? I suspect HJ would probably say no.
Then it did the M class. Not only a new design this time, but in a new plant in a new country. Once again, it didn't get the design quite right and the quality of the early models was appalling.
On top of that, it has turned out absolute duffers like the 'V-class'. Difficult not to conclude at this point that it is hoping that the brand will provide the substance that the designs can't.
If you judge quality in terms of reliability, fit and finish then it's NOT relative at all. Just look at Toyota: it doesn't matter whether it's a Yaris or a Lexus, the quality is the same. Can you say the same about Merc? I don't think so.
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I think some of this "lack of Mercedes quality" is around because it makes a good story
You are writing an article in a car magazine and it is a great angle , fills a page and gives us all a nice sense of democracy.
I wouldnt go mad but will confess that three years unlimited milage warranty: 30 years bodywork and breakdown cover gives me a sense of qualty in my Merc that is ok
The fact is has been reliable for 60,000 miles is ok too but every time I think something has gone wrong I am still ready to say ah things arent what they used to be.
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I had a 1988 260E - 1 year old and 30k miles In 2 years the fornt wishbone collapsed and the ignition key lock decided it would one day prevent all atempts at the key turning.
IF Mercedes quality is deteriorating, heaven help all owners. Much overrated imo because the handling was so abysmal in the wet only old men would drive them.. and slowly:-)
Since I am now 57 I suppose I now fall into the old man category:-( I still would not buy one - nice looking but about 50% overpriced when new.
madf
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There are two aspects to this. One is literally the quality of the materials and construction and the other is reliability.
In the first case, lots of former cheap manufacturers are catching up people like MB and BMW because of components made by third parties and production lines designed by third parties as well. However the quality in the first category does not necessarily relate to the second.
Our new Hyundai Trajet has rather cheap internal fittings, the quality of the plastics is no better than average and the finish of the door edges etc can only be described as poor (there are sharp edges at the corners), but nothing has gone wrong and in the long term it is likely to be far more reliable than a Galaxy.
I am currently driving a Galaxy for a couple of weeks and the overall quality of finish and of interior fittings is far higher and the car has a much more sophisticated feel than our Trajet. However, look at the reliability ratings and the Trajet wimply won't let you down half as often as the chocolate bar.
So what can we conclude from a car which looks and feels solid?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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