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Is it just me or am I seeing a lot of people driving around recently with no lights on at all. I'm not talking no side lights at about 4-5pm, I'm talking dipped headlights at about 7pm onwards. I've seen two of them in the past 2 weeks traveling "travelling incognito" in dark coloured cars
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At that time of day you are talking total darkness at this time of year, so how do they see where they are going?
On a similar note, we were on the M1 on Saturday, in torrential rain, and saw several cars with no lights at all (in fact we were passed by quite a few travelling in excess of 80 mph)
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I flashed someone yesterday for the same reason..Whomever it was didnt take any notice..They must know they cannot see dash so why do it..Cannot see it being save battery power.Though its been said???..Where are the police! No comment!
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Steve
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And of course with no lights on, they cannot read the speedometer.....
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And of course with no lights on, they cannot read the speedometer.....
Unless the car has an always illuminated digital display.
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I always noticed that in the UK there were a lot of people happy to drive round when it was practically dark with no lights on, almost as though they thought it would cost them money.
Conversely, here in the US, where drivers are generally about as unobservant as they can be and still live, they do all seem to remember to 'light up' as soon as it's less than full daylight.
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I know I'm opening an old topic, but ignoring regulations, what is the propblem of driving with front fogs on?
Front fogs are designed to give a low, flat and broad spread of light under the fog blanket, so the beam should not dazzle people. I think its a better way of identifying your prescence that having headlights on, especially if you don't need the headlights to actually light up the route (e.g. well lit main roads or motorways).
Why the anguish about it?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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You might be right Espada, but most people who do this just think it makes their car look "cool".
I think it makes them look like pratts who have left their fog-lights on.
The former must be in the majority though - most of these cars seem to be 10-12yr old Escorts, Cavaliers and Beemers with alloy wheels, tinted windows and drivers with baseball caps on back to front.
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The SEAT Leon and higher-spec Corolla have always-on dashboard lights-when I got my Leon for the first time I was fooled the first couple of times out at night.....I don't remember turning the lights on...oh I didn't! You soon pick it up, as you notice the road ahead is not as light as it should be-so how can people drive round at dusk/night time and not notice.
As for front fog lights, maybe in the dry you could say they are ok, but when the road is damp/wet then the low light bounces back up and is brighter. What is the need for front fogs when visability isn't low? If they are that good, why are they not law to be shown at all times when side lights are on?
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The problem with fog lights:
1) It's bad enough getting dazzle from necessary dipped beams, let alone another set of unneccessary fog lights. A motoring equivalent of light polution.
2) While the beam is low in it's foward angle it seems to lift at the sides, and so I frequently get dazzled on corners. Particularly a corner where the oncoming car with headlights is higher up.
3) They frequently get knocked out of alignment as they sit low down on the spoiler and so are likely to be hit by kerbs and alike.
4) In the wet, water sits on the fog light lens, and diffuses the light and so the level of dazzle is higher than a car with just dipped beam.
5) Driving with just fog lights on is a dangerous, in that as they are low, low walls, high kerbs, hedges etc can conceal the light, making it difficult to observe cars in the night.
6) If you're dipped beam is set up correctly and your front fog lights you shouldn't gain any advantage in ordinary driving conditions, so why use them anyway.
7) It's not as if front fog lights really help in fog anyway! I've had the on cars before and they seem to offer only a very slight advantage in extreme fog. It just seems to be a fashion accessory.
Back to the original thread, perhaps Volvo's day running lights isn't such a bad idea afterall.
WipeOut
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>>5) Driving with just fog lights on is a dangerous, in that as >>they are low, low walls, high kerbs, hedges etc can conceal >>the light, making it difficult to observe cars in the night.
On my '94 Passat, when you swich the (factory fitted) foglights on, the headlights go out. You can't have them on together. I've only used the fogs once or twice, and then only on country lanes. They are marginally better than dipped beam in fog.
Cheers, SS
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They are good in falling snow as you don't get the back-glare at eye level as you do with dipped headlights.
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>>Why the anguish about it?
Its illegal to use them in conditions other than fog/heavy snow...Local paper a few months back mentioned a person in local area was taken to court over it..forget penalty but is a reminder they are not to be used as you see fit..
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Steve
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I know I'm opening an old topic, but ignoring regulations, what is the propblem of driving with front fogs on? Front fogs are designed to give a low, flat and broad spread of light under the fog blanket, so the beam should not dazzle people. I think its a better way of identifying your prescence that having headlights on, especially if you don't need the headlights to actually light up the route (e.g. well lit main roads or motorways). Why the anguish about it? -- Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
SADDO
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The worst menace of all is cyclists without lights at night or in bad weather. (Not having a go at cyclists - just the unlit ones.)
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The worst menace of all is cyclists without lights at night or in bad weather. (Not having a go at cyclists - just the unlit ones.)
Especially those on the pavement ~ which is most of them.
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Back in the days of traffic police I know someone who left a city center car park with no lights on and was follwed for about two miles before being pulled over and given a breath test which he failed. The copper said if he had put his lights on at any time he would not have been pulled. I didn't have much sympathy. A good use of police resources in my book.
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But why wait for two miles?
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What was the speed though.
2 miles at 60mph is only 2 minutes.
The policeman would probably have run a check on the reg of the vehicle before pulling him over. This can take a while depending how busy the radio is/how slow the computer is etc.
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As someone said earlier, several cars (eg. VW group ones in my experience) have instruments which are permanently backlit so the old trick of noticing your lights are off when you look down and can't see the speedo doesn't work. Only the lack of the little 'headlights' warning light gives the game away.
No a very safe design IMHO.
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I wouldn't dream of riding my bike at night without good lights front and rear. I haven't got any bike lights, so I only ride my bike in daylight!
Cheers, SS
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I used to do a lot of cycling, and bikes without lights appalled me -- it's hard enough to be seen by cars even with them. It'd be great to see a crackdown on it.
Mind you, round my way, there next-to-zero cyclists. On these very busy narrow roads, it's just too dangerous even if a bike is lit up like a christmas tree.
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This does not appear to be limited to evenings. Saw Suzuki Samurai this morning with just sidelights on joing the M5.
The sidelights were not even part of the main lights, but the little christmas tree fairy light variety. He nearly had someone pull out on him on the dual carriageway out of town as they hadn't seen him, but carried on regardless desite it being torrential rain and pitch black (7am).
Sad to say this isnt a one off, but a regular sight.
And does anyone else believes in using lights even in sunny weather at this time of year. My route home means driving away from the setting sun, and use dipped beam to make sure people can see me. It seems obvious to me, but tend to be in the minority doing it.
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>And does anyone else believes in using lights even in sunny weather at this time of year.
I always have dipped lights on in the daytime when driving on country roads. Here in Australia it is encouraged because it makes you much more visible from further away.
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Spent a couple of weeks in Italy last summer. Carabineri were pulling over motorists and instructing them in no uncertain terms to put their lights on. New law last year.
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Same in France as from tomorrow I think. Following experiment in Les Landes and a reduction in accidents as a result.
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Agreed with the point about extra glare from foglights on wet road surfaces .
As far as being helpful extra illumination- if they are properly mounted and adjusted , they are fitted low down and tilted dwon, for the reason that the light doesn't bounce back off fog. It's unlikely they would illuminate more than about 30 yards in front of the vehicle , but if used properly that's OK as it's assumed they are being used in fog and the driver will be driving at a speed sufficently low to react within the lighted range.
But if he's traveling at 60mph he will cover that 30 yards in a second - way too short a time to react .If they are combined with a switch which takes out dipped headlights , that means those people are in practice driving blind .
Except in actual fog- and not just heavy rain- they are about ego , and show either complete disregard or actual contempt for other road users
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Except in actual fog- and not just heavy rain- they are about ego , and show either complete disregard or actual contempt for other road users
...Or total ignorance of the law, or toal unawareness.
But.....Has anyone ever heard of a driver being nicked for leaving their foglights on? Or for parking on the wrong side of the road at night?
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Mate of mine got pulled over for it a few years back. Was lucky as had been foggy that day and pleaded complete stupidity for forgetting to turn them off and was let off with a warning.
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But.....Has anyone ever heard of a driver being nicked for leaving their foglights on?
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Not me, but in a current thread on the Mondeo group site one individual says he got a £30 fine and another stated several mates had been fined too.
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I am glad that this point has been discussed and it is clear that people do not like others using fog lamps. I must say that I was one of the folk who switched them on when visibility became reduced ie; on wet days with a lot of spray being thrown up. The type fitted to my car are the tiny little jobs built in to the lower part of the front bumper and I had always felt that they would produce less glare than dipped headlights but still let others be aware of my presence, however it seems that I am wrong and will now go onto dipped headlights on these occassions. I am of course only talking about daytime use.
So a result then.
Now shall I confess about centre lane driving? No leave that for another day.
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But.....Has anyone ever heard of a driver being nicked for leaving their foglights on?
Someone not a million miles away has been nicked and fined ;o(
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=71...1
But, if you read the thread, I ended up getting away with it ;o)
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>> But.....Has anyone ever heard of a driver being nicked for leaving >> their foglights on? Someone not a million miles away has been nicked and fined ;o( www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=71...1 But, if you read the thread, I ended up getting away with it ;o)
The word "Jammy" springs to mind here - but pleased to hear it ;)
H
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I am someone who tends to drive with my headlights on at all times when on the motorway, as i feel it gives me a little more visibility.
Nice to see just, on the journey on the M61 from Bolton to MAncehster, that almost evey car had their lights on, and it's a gorgeous winters morning. lots of snow on the ground, but clear skys and a glorious low sun, bouncing off all reflective surfaces.
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It's not a worrying trend that's just been spotted, but a problem that has been around for a long, long time.
Many people also don't seem to appreciate that at dusk or in misty conditions, silver and similar light coloured cars can prove virtually invisible or difficult to spot until the last moment.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Grey ie tarmac coloured cars are also very tricky to spot. I tend to put my lights on quite early, especially during sunset as I know I would otherwise be pretty much invisible.
teabelly
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Hi, Happy solstice to all!
A bit off topic but the fog lights debate, the highway code says:
"You MUST use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced, generally when you cannot see more than 100 Metres. You may also use front and rear fog lights(in addition to headlights) but you MUST switch them off when visibility improves." (Rule 201)
And rule 94: "You MUST NOT:- Use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users.
Use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch then off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users."
Word for word. But we have all read the highway code recently, haven't we. ;¬)
DJCJ
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>>A bit off topic>>
Hardly off topic...:-)
One more thing that drivers forget is that depending on the direction you are driving, especially at dusk, visibility is superior one way than the other i.e. worse for those driving towards the setting sun.
It's even more critical for all drivers to use dipped headlights at this time of the day.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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This business about driving with foglights is also included in the Construction and Uses act.
This makes it an offence to use them except in "seriously reduced visibility". There are three possible offences involved.
1/ As above.
2/ To cause dazzle to other drivers.
3/ To cause inconvenience? to other drivers.
Some drivers state that their fog lights are actually "driving lights". In this case they are still illegal as "driving lights" must go off when headlights are dipped.
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The official offence code for causing undue dazzle (which using foglights is when visibility is greater than 100m) is LR20.
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