|
Why do big cars last longer than little cars ?
|
Is it because they don't need caning everywhere to make decent progress?
--
\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
|
All cars are built to a price. Little cars are built to a much lower price than big cars. Thus, quality is generally proportional to the size of the car.
As is customer expectation. You don't expect your Corsa to be built like an Omega, so it isn't.
|
Also, if you can fund the depreciation on an Omega, the servicing (though more expensive) doesn't seem so bad. Doubly so if you do the work yourself or use an indepedent.
Finally, one of the reasons why big cars (and prestige smaller cars) last longer is the perception of retained value. For instance, a Golf at 10 years old might be worth £2000. An Escort might be worth £500. The expense for, say, head gasket failure, would be swallowed by the Golf owner, who would be more likely to be able to afford it in any case, whereas the £500 Escort owner would probably find it cheaper to scrap the car and buy another, or simply do without transport altogether for a while.
|
|
|
High revving 16v engines with tiny capacities means short engine lifespans coupled with flimsey bodies and small profit margines.
Also they're designed to last just 6 or 7 years on purpose 'cos they want you to spend money and buy another.
|
In some cases a motorbike sale can be more profitable than a small car. Most car makes use small cars as an introduction to the brand.
Explains why VW is trying to go upmarket with the Golf ie to achieve greater profits as its the company's staple car.
|
|
My uncle, who ran a big bodyshop, used to say "Big cars - big profits; little cars- little profits". He mainly used to repair big Mercs, BMWs, Royces, Bentleys as a result.
|
Thanks for your views
Which little cars on the UK market behave/feel/drive/last like a big car ?
Where is the change-over point ?
I need a small car with an identity problem
|
A friend changed his Boxster for an Audi A2 three years ago and has done 60k in it - he says it is as good as a big car. I just bought an A2 Diesel today and it feels remarkably big & solid for the size. Cruises effortlessly at motorway speeds and has ridiculously good fuel consumption. It's for my wife but I know I'll be using it instead of my MB 430 a lot...
PB.
|
|
And that PB is why I currently have an A2 - a small car with big car qualities. Everyone comments about how spacious it is.
|
|
|
|
Skoda Fabia feels like a bigger car.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The VW Polo feels the most solid, but the Honda Jazz has more room and feels bigger. It also comes out better in the various surveys for reliability, and SWMBO's never missed a beat in the 2-and-a-bit years we had it. Skoda Fabia may be a good compromise.
|
'Average' passenger car in the US is a Camry; 'average' in Europe is a Focus or Golf.
It's understandable that European operations for Ford and GM are going sour.
|
I'm sorry but I disagree with most of the above.
Smaller cars are cheaper to run, maintain and insure: BUT they tend to be owned by private owners who - after about 5 years old- neglect them.
A well maintained Ford Fiesta 1991 will stil run and run. It may need repairs and be a little rusty round the edges but with a little bit of simple maintenance and cheap spares can be made to last 20 years. Try running a 1991 BMW 735i and paying the auto elctrician when the elctrics fail, or replacing a cylinder head. For the price of those repairs you could buy another Fiesta..(or Polo or Saxo or...) or two....:-)
madf
|
This is true, madf, but is that only because the bigger (more expensive) cars moved over to more high-tech designs before the smaller ones?
In comparison, I wonder whether a 2004 Fiesta will be as easy to keep going as a 2004 7-series - now that both more-or-less require expert maintenance and very expensive diagnostic equipment.
-Mark
|
Smaller car, smaller engine, hence has to be built down to a weight to maintain power to weight ratios. Cutting down the weight means cutting down the longevity of car parts (thinner panels, suspension parts etc etc)
Bigger car, bigger engine, less problem with weight.
Suprisingly a bigger car is not that much more expensive to manufacture in relative terms than a small car. Hence fat profits. Thats why they build them,
|
|
|
In answer to the question at the top of the thread, I think that the typical usage of small and large cars plays a part in their respective useful lives.
A larger car is more likely to be garaged when not in use. It is more likely to be used for longer journeys, which as we all know produce less wear and tear. It is less likely to be thrashed about in. It is more likely to be owned by a company or fleet, and during this time maintained very well.
To an extent, therefore I think the original question cannot be sensibly answered in terms of engineering, or 'quality' alone.
number_cruncher
|
Even hi tech small cars will be cheaper to run than large in the future: more made= cheaper spares/more in scrapyards.
You can purchase parts new for Mark3 Fiestas on ebay at 1/3 of list price. You can go to scrapyards and get s/h ecus etc for peanuts. If it's a BMW, they are rare and very expensive..
And ABS systems for big cars are £££££££s. As are catalysts when you have 2 or 4....As for BMW 7 series exhausts systems or dampers .....
If I follow the logic to its ultimate conclusion running A Mercedes 500 second hand ought to be very cheap.... It ain't (no I'm not foolish enough to...)
madf
|
"If it's a BMW, they are rare and very expensive.."
Which parts would those be?. I have never had a problem finding BMW parts either pattern from GSF or other online retailers (Motormec is great) and if they don't have it, the BMW dealer will. Never had to wait more than a day if they didn't have the part in stock. I don't know how much Ford parts cost, but throw up a few prices and lets compare them to BMW prices.
|
I currently drive a 4.2 Range Rover and the parts are silly cheap from the multitude of spares specialists. This off sets to some degree the hideous fuel consumption even on gas.
--
\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
|
|
|
"If it's a BMW, they are rare and very expensive.." Which parts would those be?. I have never had a problem finding BMW parts either pattern from GSF or other online retailers (Motormec is great) and if they don't have it, the BMW dealer will. Never had to wait more than a day if they didn't have the part in stock. I don't know how much Ford parts cost, but throw up a few prices and lets compare them to BMW prices.
Parts for BMW's over about 8 years old can be difficult or impossible to obtain. E.g. E32 door handles (which tend to break!) have been unobtainable new for a few years now.
Mechanical and, especially, routine service parts continue to be obtainable for many years. Its the trim and body parts that go first - BMW's policy seems to be that if its over 8 years old it doesn't matter.
Mercedes on the other hand seem to be able to supply parts for decades after production ended, probably because of the greater longevity of their cars.
|
|
|
I don't know how much Ford parts cost, but throw up a few prices and lets compare them to BMW prices.
If you are talking about dealer sourced parts then you're on a loser with that one!
|
|
I wasn't refering to dealer sourced parts for either the Ford or BMW, but interestingly, of the few dealer sourced parts I have bought, I found them to be equivalent if not cheaper than those from GSF. Of course it could just be that the only cheap parts sold by the dealer happen to be the ones that I ordered.
|
I wasn't refering to dealer sourced parts for either the Ford or BMW, but interestingly, of the few dealer sourced parts I have bought, I found them to be equivalent if not cheaper than those from GSF. Of course it could just be that the only cheap parts sold by the dealer happen to be the ones that I ordered.
BMW parts dept. are competitive where there is an alternative supplier (i.e. usually the common service parts from ECP, GSF etc.) where there is no alternative, and particularly with electrical/electronic parts they tend to be eye wateringly expensive. Way way more than Ford.
I replaced an IHKA (heater/air con) controller in a '98 7-series and the dealer wanted around £1000 - fortunately the owner managed to source a s/hand unit from somewhere at considerably less. The other dear part used to be the electric auxilliary circulation pump (used to cost about £300!) but I think ECP started supplying and so the dealer price has dropped.....
|
|
Fair enough, as you have probably guessed the majority of the parts I have bought were service parts and as such those would be the only parts I know the prices of. The only BMW specific parts (that GSF couldn't supply) were a fuel pipe and a fan pulley, each costing about £15. I don't know what the Ford equivalents cost or if they are main dealer items only too.
|
The residual price arguement is especially valid for some specialist vehicles, noteably 4 wheel drive.
A K reg fiesta diesel at 100,000 miles will probably be available for £300 or there abouts. A K reg Landrover Discovery TDi with the same mileage will fetch up to 10 times that.
Hence it makes good economic sense to spend £1000 on the Disco whereas that amount on the Fiesta would seem to be a silly move.
In addition, some breakers don't help the situation. If you have an early vehicle of a newish build (Like my MK 2 Traffic N reg) that was high mileage and not desparately good looking. A major failure such as a gearbox or such like becomes uneconomic to repair purely because of the cost of the part. The breakers wanted anything up to £300 for a gearbox for a vehicle that was worth £600 fixed and as ebay found out £290 as was!
H
|
My take is it makes no economic sense to spend £1000 on a 12 year old car. Better to flog it and buy another .
madf
|
My take is it makes no economic sense to spend £1000 on a 12 year old car. Better to flog it and buy another . madf
Depends on what type of car it is and why you need to spend the money.
£1000 on an engine re build for a discovery worth some £3000 would be well worth it if it were in reasonable condition otherwise, but you would not want to spend that on a K reg Mondeo.
H
|
|
|
|
|
|
