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About a year ago I was asked by a friend to help buy a Legacy Estate. We looked at a few and then he lost interest for a couple of months. Then he decided again that he wanted one. I was surprised to find that all of the ones we'd looked at months earlier were still on sale. These cars are really good, but seem to be generally ignored or avoided. Downsides are that they are heavy on fuel and complicated. Be warned though, the parts are VERY VERY expensive.
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I looked at Subarus. Agree with Aprilia: not only are parts expensive but so is servicing - £200 to £350 a time!
I decided not to buy: an expensive indulgence I thought.
Pity: the latest big engine Legacy I drove was very nice with lots of toys and a nice auto. No wonder they offer 3 years free servicing at times.
My local dealer struggles to sell Forresters - on sale for months..
madf
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I was in my local Fiat dealer the other day trying out the new Panda. This dealer also sells Subarus and as I expressed an interest they seemed desperate to get me out for a test drive. As it was my day off I went for a drive in a Forester XT and a Legacy Outback 2.5 SE auto. The Forester went well,but was a little too anonymous to get me excited. The Outback was very classy and I was very impressed. As a driver of large Volvo estates for about 13 years I was interested in comparing them with the Volvo V70. The Subarus are on average about £7000 cheaper than the equivalent Volvo and the Subarus are 4WD! That pays for an awful lot of petrol and servicing. Also, Subaru prices have been reduced in recent months by up to 50%.
However, I would be a little worried by residual values. What Car quotes the Legacy as being marginally better than the Honda Accord Tourer - I don,t believe it!
As far as Ian's request for advice on an older Subaru,whilst they do well in reliability surveys, parts prices are still relatively high and,as Aprilia advises, their complexity will mean that if anything goes wrong it will be VERY EXPENSIVE.
Another negative is the cambelt which is very large and very expensive!
I gave the Outback serious consideration as a replacement for our Honda CR-V. But my head tells me to stick to Honda or possibly Nissan (X-Trail)
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I meant to say Subaru PARTS prices have been reduced by up to 50%!
HectorG
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Yes this was my point really, the JD Power stuff rates them highly but in the main they are too quirky for the average buyer and consequently the trade seems to kill them, Brightwells at their 4 x 4 auction recently sold a 110k W Legacy Estate GL main dealer part ex for £2600! as they get older people get even more wary of big bills/parts availability and they won't hold their value like say an avensis estate theoretically a lesser car but always worth something. ( I speak having sold a written off 94 carina for £300 in the last 18 mths). an X plate Sturbo forrester went for £5k at Brightwells, not mega miles either. I think I will sit this one out and see if the car sells and if not go in with a view to paying no more than £3200-£3500 for a mileage adjusted private sale seems fair to me.
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Given petrol prices are likley to hit £1 per litre in the next 6 months and Lagcy fuel economy on older models is POOR, any sensible buyer will run a mile from a high mileage Legacy.
If you do decide to buy, assume it will be worthless on resale..
Any second hand Legacies in Stoke on Trent sit around and around for 6 months - especially older hi mileage ones.
madf
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Subaru are their own worst enemy. They have a bad reputation in the trade for stupid parts prices which deters buyers of both new and used cars.
There was a lot of PR 'noise' about some "50% reductions" in parts prices recently, but in reality only a small number of slower moving parts (mostly for older models) were actually reduced.
Subaru make good cars, but they really do need to get their parts and servicing costs under control to make the cars attractive to the average buyer.
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Thanks Aprila and Madf (sensible buyer....that'll be me then!) I realise that both your points account for the vertical depreciation of these cars despite some very solid attributes. I wondered whether components such as discs, plugs etc. can be sourced via the imprezza'd modding sites such as scoobynet at less than dealer prices and are interchangeable with the legacy. Thanks, Ian
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Most of the stuff sold via ScoobyNet will be performance-biassed and therefore more expensive that regular stuff through the dealers.
Spark Plugs won't be a problem (they all use NGK Platinum or Iridium plugs at about £30 for four). Filters etc. are quite dear. Its when something that's 'non-service' goes wrong that the costs can mount. I think exhaust downpipes cost about £1000; the front-rear splitter coupling is about £1200 IIRC. You may be able to source s/hand parts - but that can be problem if you're in a rush and need the car back on the road urgently.
Parts Direct in Derby can source parts from Japan if they have the VIN number - but obviously it takes time.....
BTW - if you look at any Subarus check out the clutch operation (smooth, with no judder or rattles) - it can be a weak spot, especially if the car is an estate and/or has been used for towing. Subaru recommend the flywheel and full clutch are all changed as a unit - breathtakingly expensive if you do it properly!
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Well I'm amazed at these comments about parts and servicing.
Having had seven different Subaru over the years (interspersed with a Passat Tdi Estate and a Nissan X-Trail), I can honestly say I've never been worried about parts or servicing costs.
All my services usually come in around £150 including parts,labour - the lot, except for the biggie (60,000 miles) which is £300. I've never had to buy a part because nothing has ever gone wrong in any, repeat ANY, of the seven Subaru I've had. I started with one of the Impreza Turbo's when no-one knew what they were, then a couple of Legacies and then Foresters (jncl the S-Turbo) plus a couple of other Leagacies we had to get for other people at work.
I had the Passat for 18 months and it was a real pain. Ok the economy was in a different league but servicing was much costlier and the cost of parts bought was in the 1000's over the short time I had it.
The number of days off the road, ringing the AA, going back and forth to the dealer all led me back to Subaru where I have never had a single problem.
My current car is the new Outback 2.5 SE and it's a dream - particularly now the economy of the new engine is so good (relative to the old one that is !) . I average an easy 32mpg around town, short runs etc. and get up to 40mpg on a long run. I am sure this is reasonable economy for such a car.
To make a comparison between a car that gives better economy but then is off the road for so long, is a difficult one to make in purely monetary terms - but I know which I prefer.
This comparison with cost of parts really gets me because with Subaru you rarely, if ever, need any.
jd
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Well, I do actually agree with you. Subarus are so reliable and well made that you seldom need parts. However I think the *potential* high cost does put people off. I have bought Subaru service parts (to fit on other people's cars) and they *are* dear - a Subaru air or fuel filter will cost you double the equivalent Nissan part for example and probably 4-5x Ford prices.
Eventually you do need some parts, even on a very reliable car (e.g. timing belts, exhaust, clutch) and by that time the car is getting a bit older and the cost is really painful. If you were to need a clutch a go to a Subaru dealer you could be hit with up to £5-600 on parts alone.
I got involved in swapping out a faulty torque splitter (the 'viscous cooupling' unit) on a Legacy. The new part was quoted at over £1200! Eventually we managed (after a month) to get a secondhand unit at about £500 - still a lot of money.
For the record though, I think Subarus are great and I would readily buy one myself - but I think it is only fair that people be aware of the *potential* for very large bills.
To get 32mpg out of a 2.5 litre Outback is indeed exceptional economy for such a car (or indeed, any 2.5 litre car) - you obviously have a very gentle driving style.
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I did my research throoughly. My nephew has an Impreza Turbo - c 80k miles. He had the cost of replacing the torque splitter as described by Aprilia..:-(
A friend had a new clucth fitted by Subaru after 30k hard miles. It juddered. After 5 k of this, they stripped it down and fitted a new flywheel and clutch. It still juddered. It is now better but read the US websites and it is often a perennial problem...(I read them as research:-(
The servicing costs I quoted were from my local dealer for a 70k miles Forrester or Turbo Impreza.
I concluded that I would love one new when someone else paid for the depreciation: a secondhand one made far more sense but the servcicing costs at a Subaru agent for a high mileage car driven hard (why have a Subaru and drive otherwise?) are just expensive.
And few Impreza owners will average more than 25mpg (if that) if they drive hard.
If bought new and sold after 3 years, the servicing costs will be low (cambelt change is now 80k miles I think) but the depreciation!
There are a few specialist brokers easily found using Google..
As Aprilia says, service item costs are high.. And you change differential oil every 36k.. None of your sealed for life rubbish here..
madf
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After 10 years of running non turbo Impreza's and a succession of Legacy estates, unless you can afford mega early depreciation, then buyimg at 3+ years old is the way to go. At that age there is no manuf warranty, so a good local mechanic, and parts via a motor factor, have enabled me to enjoy a decade of very cheap motoring (full NCD and 34mpg on 60 mile commute).Tempting fate, nothing has ever gone wrong, compared to fairly recent C class disasters at 3 years old, although a 90k belt change is looming.Price as yet unknown, but away from the dealer network I have been quoted sub £250 inclusive.
Second hand prices are ludicrously cheap, and, business commitments not withstanding, I would keep my 97 GLS estate for another three years. Selling it will be a problem, and as it is worth so much more to me than I could ever realise it for monetarily, I may end up keeping it to run alongside my commercial if unsuccessful in realising a 'fair' price.
I only wish that Lexus would depreciate as fast, but then I'd miss the surefootedness of wet weather 4WD and carrying capacity (but not the interior drabness).
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"To get 32mpg out of a 2.5 litre Outback is indeed exceptional economy for such a car (or indeed, any 2.5 litre car) - you obviously have a very gentle driving style."
Aprilia
I do drive fairly gently I have to say but not exactly feathering the pedal.
The difference with this new Outback compared to my earlier Subaru's is really astonishing - for example, my Forester S-Turbo barely got into the 20's (but I suppose if begged to be driven hard....).
The new Outback is a really relaxing drive (auto, naturally) and it seems to respond well to being driven like this. There is enough grunt available when required though ......
Nice to hear some positive comments about Subaru by the way !
jd
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Subaru service costs are pretty high, but this is partly because Subaru don't go for this variable extended service interval rubbish which looks good for the fleet manager but does nothing for the long life of the vehicle. My 98 Impreza has had services as per Subaru requirements every 7500 miles (oil and filter) and subsequent services include gearbox/diff oil changes every 30000 miles, cambelt every 45000 miles etc etc. I believe newer Subarus have 10000 mile interval but the regular fluid changes help to make a reliable car that lasts over high mileages. Hence Subarus are very reliable, helped by more regular servicing compared to other manufacturers and hence more expensive overall service costs. But yes parts prices are high if anything goes wrong. Luckily my 98 Impreza turbo (now on 128000 miles) has been fault free from new.
Buying a Subaru a fews years old with a FSSH has got to be a good buy, provided you don'y pay over the odds to start with.
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I had a 2001 Legacy 2.0l manual estate, giving about 30 mpg. I traded for a 2004 Legacy 2.0l auto estate (new model) in March. The economy is very little different. I drive in exactly the same way on the same routes. (Except of course in a more relaxed way due to the auto box). I keep a meticulous record of outlay, and will do a check and report back shortly on exact MPG.
In accordance with HJ's recommendations I will take the car in for its real first service at the makers 12 000 mile free service. I usually service and change oils etc. at half the maker's recommended intervals - occasionally I have had to tell the service manager to indulge me when he insisted that the car wasn't ready for servicing - especially when it messed up the service book.
In this instance I intend to take the car in for a pre-winter 'health check' at 6000 miles. The interior light has refused to work for the last 1000 miles. Apart from that I have nothing to complain about.
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I updated my spreadsheet for the running costs for the Legacy to date
2004 model estate 2.0L auto. At 6168 miles the consumption was 29.87 mpg, and the cost was 12.79 pence per mile, very little different from the manual model. That is for fuel only. Next week I will give it its pre-winter health check, which I?m sure will shoot the bills sky high.
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