My 03 plate C5 never gave me any trouble at all during the time I had it.
If this car was the standard 2.0 petrol I'd advise you to go for it. However, the HPi engine can be a real source of problems. Its pretty much a one of a kind engine that was never produced in great numbers as it was scrapped within 2 years of starting production. Apparently many of them never ran smoothly throughout the rev range and various problems have been reported with the injection system and electrics.
The main issue is that nobody really knows anything about the HPi engine, and that extends right back to Citroen UK. The dealers don't see a great many of them so fault finding is difficult for them. There are also said to be issues of parts availability and the costs of components for the injection system are high. If you do have a problem, the dealers often just bolt expensive parts on until the problem clears without a clear idea of the cause.
The above only applies to the HPi, the other models bar the very early ones are generally fine. The C5 is a far better car than anybody gives it credit for, and its really practical and full of little design ideas that make life easier.
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I would recComend agaisnt NOT buying it.
as you ARE AWARE - MANY FAULTS on this particular model.
I've seen a few 100k plus new vectra's around making similar money.
Should prove more reliable and parts will certainly be easier on the wallet.
Dont buy a pre 53 plate C5.
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Just chiming in late.
What he said above, HPI engine wierd and the Citreon dealers are sick of it.
If you can live with 100k miles then lots of better options for £4,000.
For my money a Toyota Avensis. 2000 or very clean 1999 at £4k.
Loads around diesel or petrol available and estate if you need the room.
Regards,
Mr. Sensible Shoes.
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In fact this one on Autotrader looks very nice.
2000 TOYOTA Avensis 2.0 STDi, July W reg. 76000 miles, Turbo Diesel, metallic green, 5 door, one owner from new, FTSH, full MOT, remote CL, EW, PAS, twin airbag, r/cass, ABS, immobiliser, 50 mpg, immaculate condition, drives superb, 9 . £4,095.
Take 3,500 cash and see what happens.
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You will find lots of posts in this forum warning people about the perils of owning a Citroen. Well, after over 10 years with a faultless Xantia, I don't take any notice of them. The PSA diesel engines are as good as anything you will find in this class of car.
The early C5s were subject to a lot of recalls, so you want to make sure that this car has had any known problems dealt with. One thing to check for particularly, is to make sure there is no uneven wear on the rear tyres. This has been a common problem on early C5s and Citroen have not been keen deal with it (it was never subject to a recall). We have 2.2 HDI and this too had uneven wear on the rear tyres. After an unpromising beginning, Citroen did finally agree to sort it out and replaced the rear axle beam.
We have now had our C5 for about 21 months and it has been mostly trouble free. There have only been a couple of minor niggles (in addition to the tyre wear problem), neither of which cost us any money. Not enough to make us want to get rid of it anyway. It is a very high spec. car and there is a lot more to go wrong with it, compared to the Xantia, but it is a much underrated car. There is a lot more leg room for the driver than in a Xantia and the boot is much bigger also. I would say that I prefer driving the Xantia but the C5 is wonderful value for money.
As far as the HPI engine is concerned, I have heard of some problems with it. I took one on a test drive once and liked it a great deal, but we decided to stick with the Xantia, because we couldn't really justify spending £8000 on a second car. However, at £8000 it was a steal, as it had done only 1900 miles and looked as new. The HPI models generally sell for very low prices, so you should never pay as much for one as for, say, an HDI model. I remember that when they were discontinued, the last of the brand new ones were being offered at massive discounts. I saw some going at about £12000 or less. Bear in mind that they were only made with the Exclusive spec.
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If you like the idea of self levelling suspension, and aren't bothered about diesel, go have a hunt for a late (they went up to 2001) Xantia petrol. My guess is the £3.5k will bag you a nice one with average miles (30-40k). The same money will buy an HDi only a bit older, or a few more miles.
I'd avoid early C5s like the plague - and I am a Citroen nut....!
--
RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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I'd avoid early C5s like the plague - and I am a Citroen nut....! -- RichardW Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Yes, I love the Xantia but I repeat, the C5 is a much underrated car and tremendous value for money, with a much better spec. than any Xantia had. If you want to look at petrol versions, used 1.8s are dirt cheap and the 2.0 not much more.
I am obviously more of a Citroen nut!
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"We have now had our C5 for about 21 months and it has been mostly trouble free. "
How to damm a car. Modern cars Should be 100% trouble free..
madf
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Additional problem I have is that I need to have a car by Monday since I'm due to be going on a family holiday to the Isle Of Wight and to make matters worse I'm working all day Thursday and Friday then on nights Saturday and Sunday! Yes I know it's entirely the wrong circumstances to make a rational unbiased decision on a car!!!
My thinking is this - the car seems to run ok at the moment. It is being sold under book price. It has a 6-month warranty for *when* it goes wrong. If it's a dog I can part-ex it for something else in six months!
Additionally since we're spending so little on this as our main car we (as in my wife and I) are going to buy an old Fiat Seicento as a local runabout so if the C5 does let me down I won't be standed (well at least not once the nice breakdown man gets me home)!
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Your decision, of course... but since the dealer has had it four months already and the trade knows well how unloved these cars are, what do you think you'll get if you try to part exchange it?
Four grand will buy you a far, far more reliable car, as other posters have pointed out, and you'll not have to worry about having a backup car, or trying to buy something else in six months.
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Four grand will buy you a far, far more reliable car, as other posters have pointed out, and you'll not have to worry about having a backup car, or trying to buy something else in six months.
You know this car has been unreliable do you? It has done over 100,000 miles and if it has a full history, it should be easy enough to check whether or not it has caused any trouble.
As far as a problem in selling the car on is concerned, well the local car supermarket near to where we live (availablecar.com) shifts loads of C5s and has had a number of HPI models during the last 9 months or so, that went very quickly.
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Whether or not this particular vehicle has had problems in the past, the reality is these cars are not well liked by the trade, or by the motoring public in general. Evidenced by this vehicle remaining unsold after 4 months. In my opinion, this is because there are numerous other makes of car which offer far greater reliability.
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"We have now had our C5 for about 21 months and it has been mostly trouble free. " How to damm a car. Modern cars Should be 100% trouble free.. madf
So you reckon all other makes are 100% trouble free?
I am only talking about two minor problems (plus the rear axle beam, which is a recognised fault on early C5s). One was to replace the temperature sensor and the other was to replace the dip beam switch, both under warranty. We got the car for a very low price and with low mileage, and two little problems like that are not enough to put me off the car, which has a super engine, very good ride and is loaded with equipment.
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"Modern cars should be 100% trouble free.."
Can you give us a few examples of ones that are? And I'm not talking individual cars but makes and models? It would certainly be a great help for those people who value reliability above all.
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I can order a brand new 3.0 V6 Exclusive with a 30% discount since they want to get rid of Phase-I cars just when the Phase-II is just around the corner. Would you go for it ?
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I wouldn't go for a 3.0 V6, as they are just too thirsty.
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Well, here I am sitting with an 02 C5 (built 2001) One of the first off the line.It's the 2.2 HDI, mind you - reckoned to be one of the best engines and high spec 'Exclusive'. If I were to sell it now I'd probably get peanuts for it. So will I?
Will I heck! It's had quite a few modifications under warranty -new back axle, gearknob, gear cables, handbrake lever, replacement rear spheres - oh and a small matter of a seized turbo!
The point is that all the faults have been sorted. The car is now totally reliable and an awful lot of car for the money. It's very refined, stacked full of toys and dead economical. Yet goes like stink and is virtually silent at speed.I've covered 37,000 miles.
By this time, any bugs should have been sorted. If the mileage is that high it's probably been reliable. Do check that cambelt etc has been attended too. Make sure the back suspension doesn't rattle and back tyres aren't worn on the edges.
The HPI has certainly a bit of a reputation but at that mileage it must now be well bedded in to reliability.
Don't believe all the stories about Citroens being unreliable. When newely off the line they tend to have bugs, but once sorted they go on for ever. The trim etc can be a bit frail, but mechanically, Citroens are extremely rugged and bug-free. The bodies just don't rust - it's as simple as that!
Have a look through the technical forum on HJ. Note how few Citroens (and C5s in particular) crop up.
Meanwhile you will enjoy the sophistication. C5 is a highly underrated car.
Graeme
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A three yar old car for £3.5K?
Offer them £2,750 with the 6 month warranty, see where that gets you.
Tell them, you don't want to be rushed into buying a car in a hurry and there's actually a wide choice for this sort of money, and you do have the option of hiring for a week, but you will buy if an offer you cannot refuse arises.
I did the same some years ago with a car for my mother.
The dealer will negotiate, but if you offer him the £2750, he will probably agree on a little over £3K. Chistmas is coming, car sales have hit the floor (again). There are loads of people like some of us here in the BR saying "Don't touch it it's a Citroen!" These superstitions will only help you get a good deal.
If and when you get it, keep it regularly serviced. Get is serviced by a specialist about 2 weeks before the warranty runs out and get any warranty related faults sorted for free.
IMO Citroens of this type stopped being a problem when they brought out the Xantia.
Also, do a search for Andyspares. There is a great french car forum, mainly specialising in Citroens.
Good luck!
H
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The HPI has certainly a bit of a reputation but at that mileage it must now be well bedded in to reliability. Don't believe all the stories about Citroens being unreliable. When newely off the line they tend to have bugs, but once sorted they go on for ever. The trim etc can be a bit frail, but mechanically, Citroens are extremely rugged and bug-free. The bodies just don't rust - it's as simple as that! Have a look through the technical forum on HJ. Note how few Citroens (and C5s in particular) crop up. Meanwhile you will enjoy the sophistication. C5 is a highly underrated car. Graeme
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At last some common sense. I was beginning to think I was a lone voice on this issue.
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Funnily enough my wife (who knows nothing about cars) has been saying that with such a high mileage all the problems should have been sorted by now! Wonder if she'd be so positive if we bought it and broke down on the way to the labour ward in the pouring rain (she's 5 months pregnant)!
The selling dealer is unaware of my urgent need for a car thankfully, and I was planning to make an offer though have a feeling that since they're selling the car at cost already they may not go any lower.
Still of course it's worth a try so my thinking is to tell them I've done some research and heard a load of horror stories about the car so am feeling a bit dubious, then make an offer of £3000 (or maybe even Hugo's £2750 suggestion tee-hee) or alternatively request the warranty be extended to a year+.
Yes I've been to look at other high-mileage cars - Subaru Legacy, Mitsubishi Galant, Ford Mondeo, and tomorrow I'm going to check out a couple of VW Passats, but none so far have offered remotely the value (or been in the condition) of this C5.
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Forgot to mention I don't do Vauxhalls and find the Toyota Avensis dull dull dull I'm afraid...
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The dull Toyota line always makes me grin,makes sense if your idea of motoring excitement is recovery trucks,dubious courtesy cars,parts departments and 'oh well mate,they all do that'.I'll stick with dull every time.
That combination of C5/engine/mileage will certainly be entertaining,never a dull moment.
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People do get touchy when their chosen vehicle comes in for criticism don't they?
Its only a car!
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Well subject to a second extended test drive later I've done the deal! Got them down to £3250 then agreed at £3300 including an MOT (which wasn't due til December anyway but will give me a little more piece of mind and less hassle) and the 6-month warranty of course. I'm sorry but at this price, which is well below book, nothing comes close for value!
Additionally I've rung the Citroen main dealer which serviced it and confirmed that all recall work has been performed and that the timing belt was changed at the 80k mile service, and they told me that at the 100k service all was well.
In response to my dislike of the last generation Toyota Avensis, in my defence I do take the reliability record of vehicles into consideration - hence looking at the Subaru Legacy & Mitubishi Galant, which are much more interesting in my opinion!
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Enjoy your Citroen,it certainly is a lot of car for not a lot of money.I'm sure there are many here that would be intrested to hear how you get on.
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Did you check the rear tyres for uneven wear?
Do keep us informed of your experience with the car (hopefully to prove all the doubting Thomases wrong).
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This morning about half a mile from work there was a beep from the dashboard and a message popped up 'Tyre deflated'. Thinking the tyres maybe just needed pumping up I wasn't too concerned. About quarter of a mile on the road - another 'beep' and another message - 'Tyre punctured'
I got out of the car at work - had a quick look - all the tyres looked OK. My first assumption was that the sensors were playing up, but to be absolutely sure I drove straight down the road to a tyre repair depot. I went in and announced that my computer told me I had a puncture, but I couldn't see anything (felt a bit sheepish) Another customer came up behind me and said, 'You certainly have a puncture, you're front left tyre is flat as a pancake!'
He was right and the tyre had obviously gone from 'not noticeable' to 'flat' while standing outside the tyre depot.
The moral of the story is that the C5 technology works! That saved me a nasty puncture at speed and clearly the technology was sensitive enough to alert me long before the pressure dropped enough to be noticeable to the naked eye. When I told the fitter how impressed I was with it he said, 'You wouldn't be if you owned a Renault!'
Great car - endlessly fascinating - almost with a life and soul of its own!
By the way, you won't find anything in that price range with so much leg room and lovely comfy seats. I'm over 6 foot and I've never felt tired or uncomfortable in C5 - even after long runs.
Graeme
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That's a cheery story to read having just got mine, excellent stuff!
Yep I took it for a long test drive and had a play with absolutely everything and decided to take the plunge! Also discovered it has cruise which pleased me no end! Overall it's in excellent condition, only a few marks on the paintwork and the interior looks almost as new! Got a lift there from my dad and he was amazed when he saw its condition. As said before paid £3300 including a 6-month warranty and 12-months' MOT (which it passed fine after having a new front no.plate fitted).
Only a few minor niggles:-
> During the test drive the "Tyre deflated" warning came up. Of course that was cured by putting some air in the tyres!
> Occasionally there is some squeaking from the brakes, though they feel & work fine (bloomin' sensitive though!)
> Neither of the two boots lights are working
> There is only one key, though it is the remote unit. Will get a price for a second non-remote later today.
Drove the hour's drive home (mostly motorway) with no major problems (though detected for the first time an occasional rattling through the steering wheel). Once home had another thorough look and discovered despite a single-shot CD player in the head unit there is also a 6-disc changer under the drivers seat, bonus!
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All that for 3,300!
Bargain - hope you enjoy it Phil.
--
Adam
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Sounds like a good deal - good on you!
I hope you did the usual checks for accident damage though! ;-)!!
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The brakes do squeal a bit sometimes - nothing to worry about - a good clean up and a bit of copper grease shoud sort that out. Rattle from steering wheel is maybe just the shrouds - one or two early ones had that sorted out under warranty.
Yes - a 6 CD changer under the seat! You'll become aware of all sorts of interesting touches. Does yours have the red lights on the doors as a warning whe open at night - they also cast a whte light on the pavement to light you in and out. Footwells are similarly lit (well, on 'Exclusive' trim model anyway)
Have a look in the C5-L forum in Yahoo groups - an absolute treasute trove of info on C5.
I think you've got a bargain by the sound of it. Finger crossed it keeps running well for you.
Graeme
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Squeaky brakes do seem to be common on this car. We recently had the front pads changed on our C5 and generally it is better than it was but, occasionally, they will squeak a lot and suddenly be alright, for no apparent reason.
You should have two keys, I would have thought. The CD player on the car is excellent, I think, with great quality sound.
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Yes mine does have the red lights on the doors which also illuminate the ground, and the footwell lights. I also liked it when I first started it at night and the xenon headlamps automatically came on - fantastic!
Speaking of the xenons one thing I noticed whilst driving around some twisty hilly roads splattered with speed bumps where I live was that they constantly try to auto-level to match the angle of the car, but they didn't seem to be able to keep up! Or was it me going to fast? ;o)
"Rattle from steering wheel is maybe just the shrouds - one or two early ones had that sorted out under warranty." - think I will take it either to a main dealer or to a Citroen specialist (if I can find one in the Croydon area) before the 6-month warranty is up to get it thoroughly checked over.
Yes I know there should be more than one key! But that wasn't enough to stop me buying the car. Got some quotes yesterday - one dealer just said £90 for standard key and £160 for remote. The next dealer I rang was much more helpful and broke down the quotes, but in total they worked out to be the same for the standard key but £50 less for the remote!
Agreed about the stereo - sound quality is easily better than on my (ex)2001 5-series!
Will check out the forum, cheers Graeme!
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Did you ever get around to checking the rear tyres for uneven wear? I recommend that you should do so whilst the car is still under warranty, as it is a big job to rectify the problem. Basically, if you do have uneven tyre wear, the only solution to the problem is to have the rear axle beam replaced.
There might be a problem with the warranty, however, if it is just a mechanical breakdown warranty, which is what we had on ours when we bought it. The warranty provider wouldn't entertain a claim because, as they said, it was a manufacturing fault.
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When this problem with the uneven tyre wear occurs is it the same on each affected car ie. always worn on one particular side of each rear tyre?
The tyres on mine have quite a lot of tread left (last replaced 12k miles ago but according to the schedule last up to 30k!) and I did check for even wear before I bought the car but they seemed fine, though I suppose time will tell when they wear a little more whether it's even. Presumably this is more of an annoyance in that you need to replace your rear tyres more often, rather than a major problem?
Contacted the last registered owner this morning, a leasing firm, who kindly faxed me over the entire maintenance history of the car. Makes interesting reading (and no crashes or breakdowns as far as I can tell)!
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I have read of the uneven wear being on either side (obviously the same edge on both tyres) but with ours it was the outside edge. I had the rear wheel alignment checked and they were well within the spec. limits, so I didn't think Citroen would agree to replace the axle beam, but they did.
It has had a noticeable benefit already in that, although the rear suspension didn't rattle, as they apparently did in the beginning with a lot of early C5s, there used to be a noticeable rumble from the rear when travelling on uneven surfaces. This has gone completely and the ride is now very quiet. We still have the original tyres on the rear after about 32k, although they will need to be replaced soon. I wish the front tyres lasted as long! Hopefully, with a lighter petrol engine in yours, you should get more life than we have managed.
Glad to hear there have been no reported problems with this 'unreliable car' after over 100,000 miles!
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My front tyres were replaced a little early at 21k, the rears were done at half price at the same time as my rear axle was replaced.
My 2.0 HDI 110 is a heavy car with a lot of torque to put through the front wheels, and it can stop very quickly, so I arent surprised the tyres don't last ages.
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I didn't get any offer to replace the rear tyres and neither did they offer to refund the cost of checking the rear wheel alignment, which I paid for. I replaced the original (Michelin) front tyres at about 17500 miles, as there was uneven wear on those too but I probably changed them too soon to be honest. What was a shock though, was that the replacement tyres, which were Avons, wore down in about 13000 miles.
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