I often wonder if we can get our vehicle count down from 3 to 2 or even 1, and release some of the money tied up in them and reduce insurance, running costs etc. But for the reasons outlined below it would be difficult.
Me - for pleasure - needs to fit 4 people, plenty of space, safe to drive and manual 4 x 4 is preferable as I do plenty of rural driving, and tow heavily laden trailers.
The wife - needs the exact opposite (typical!). Won't drive it if she has to think of changing gears, and it needs to be small. Fitting all of us in it is not that much of an issue, though it is handy. Give her something the size of the Discovery and she will run a mile - one mile further than she would drive it!
Then there's me - work - needs to fit and store all my stuff in so that I effectively have a mobile tool shed, plus space for materials etc I need to collect and carry.
The Discovery is a functional vehicle, that after visting Scotland the week the A9 in Perth got closed when the whether was terrible, I swore I would never be without! It fits all the family in with comfort. I am 6'4" and need to put the seat right back, still leaving plenty of legroom for the children. It is also a great towing vehicle. However it is also big, slightly clunky, cannot fit my tools in long term and, worst of all for the wife - MANUAL!
So SWMBO drives a very nice Nissan Almera 1.6 auto. It holds the road nicely, runs well and she can drive to work in it and take the children to wherever they need to go, but when I drive it it's too small and we're back to the drivers seat needing to go right back. And to top it all the boot is even smaller, so fitting tools and materials in there - well it's simply a non starter! Further more she confesses that she would like to go smaller when she changes the car!
Thirdly, we have the van. Yes I am alias - WHITE VAN MAN - coming to a contraflow near you with attitude! This LWB Nissan Primastar is great for my work. I can fit all my tools and materials in there. What doesn't go in the van will fit on top. However, to use it as a family car I would have to remove my tools from it every time I took the family out. That would mean I am bound to forget something next time I'm on the job and I would have to reload everything almost each day. Plus I can only fit 2 passengers in it, not 3 (Wife and 2 children).
So to go from 3 vehicles to 1, we need a 4 wheel drive van that I can fit all my tools, materials (inc 8 x 4 sheets of plasterboard), family, luggage, seat 4 people minimum plus children's friends and be the size of a Nissan Micra but is actually a coach!
Boy, if ever anyone makes that vehicle I would love to see it!
Close comers are:
Mitsibushi L200 etc - 4x4 yes, van - erm well.... small car NO Auto - Perhaps but - what am I thinking of!
Large Renault grande espace etc - 4x4 - you can get them I know - auto - poss, all my tools and materials - er no, not with the family in the car. Would the wife drive it? Hahahahahaha!!!! Er no I don't think so.
OK lets go smaller - renault scenic etc - good family car - small enough - the wife will say not really - auto yes, tools in the back - no not with the family to an even greater degree. 4x4 - you can get them I know.
To be fair, it may be more feasable to go from 3 cars to 2 and keep the van.
Only SWMBO wants nothing bigger than she has and I don't want anything smaller than the Land Rover. I think that would become a stalemate!
So if anyone can help me with a large 4 x 4 manual the size of a ford focus and automatic, we may be onto a winner!
The thing is that together they may only do 12000 miles this year!
Heaven help when the children start driving!
Do any other backroomers need such motoring extremes as I do?
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4x4 MPV with plenty of grunt to tow a full size trailer with all your kit in.
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"Do any other backroomers need such motoring extremes as I do?"
Nothing like as extreme but wife usually has the "posh" car - OK it's only a Xantia HDi Exclusive (which we also use for towing) and I have the "cast offs" - old, 100k+ BXs in the past for going to work and taking stuff to the tip! Lately however I have moved up market to the Executive rubbish and home removal car (for son and daughter who seem to move every fortnight) - a new Berlingo HDi! It's a van with windows but has air con etc and doesn't spray me with LHM every weekend! Probably not big enough for your 8'x4' plaster boards etc (they would definitely have to go on the roof), but it's an ideal second car)and plenty of room for tools, three other people etc. Just been to Liverpool and back today in it and it is surprisingly comfortable, cruises at 80 (sorry, 70) easily and returns 50 mpg on a run. Previous trips to France have proved it's great capacity for 3 passengers, luggae and copious quantities of wine, beer cheese etc
As for when your kids have their own cars, all it means is that you have twice as many cars to clean, maintain, change oil, and (in my case) pay RAC fees for! And when they are students, pay for services, repairs etc for
happy motoring!
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Actually you can fit 8x4 sheets of plasterboard in a Berlingo as long as you prop them up so they go up and over the front seat backs.Not ideal for a long journey, but it works.
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I've solved the problem of needing a van by using an MPV with the rearmost seats folded to carry tools and other gear. Long materials and the stepladder can go on the roof or inside with other seats folded flat. The mucky mowers and gardening gear go in a trailer. This way I can seat 5 most times and 7 with a bit of planning and moving the toolboxes. For IT work in the summer, the utility CDs go in the jacket pocket and I take the bike.
Mrs H has her economical supermini to commute.
Um, yes you do actually need 3 vehicles for covering all the options.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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You can get an Isuzu Rodeo 3.0D double-cab automatic. HJ
Load bay is only 5' long though. No good for 8' x 4 sheets
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Is it possible to have a trailer of a siutable size to tow behind the Landrover? Flog Nissan and have a holiday.
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Do VW still make the Transporter Syncro? I ran one for several years and can vouch for its off road and snowy weather capabilities. May currently be available as the Transporter 'Window Van' with option of SWB/LWB and standard and hi roof with a max of 9 seats (or 5 if prefered). Bet it costs a fortune to 'special order'.
Or failing that, get a second hand Legacy auto estate, three years old, for buttons.Insurance & petrol costs are only an issue if you have little or no NCD or drive big mileages.The dull interior is another downside to the Legacy, but a good sound system,(not standard) and legendary reliability, more than compensate.
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Thanks for all your suggestions.
The advantage of having a van of the work is that I don't have to unload my tools from it every day.
In addition it is almost essential that I can carry sheet materials inside rather than outside. Timber on the roof is not so much of a problem, but MDF and plasterboard when it seems to rain continually for days, is a no no.
I had thought about getting a large towavan twin axle trailer instead of the van and often wondered why no other builder does. When I started trying to negotiate the old van in peoples' small driveways I found out! One of my regular clients has a reasonable sized parking area but even without their cars in it turning around would mean unhitching the trailer, turning the towing vehicle around and then manually swinging the trailer around before hitching it back up again. None of which looks too professional!
HJ's suggestion of a Rodeo 3.0 TD - great for me but much too big for the wife. In addition I would want the manual box.
The use of a people carrier for both work and pleasure would orninarly sound a good option, but due to the weights I would need to carry, the 1 tonne plus payload of the van together with avoiding the need to ruin upholstery etc was actually the reason I got my first van when I was just renovating my own property.
I did think about getting a Discovery 300 TDi commercial, but that would not suit my needs as a car or a van. Too few seats and too small load area.
Well, the van is new, the nissan is 5 years old and the disco is 10 years old.
It looks like that the van is definitely needed but working to combine the requirements of both the other vehicles in the longer term may be an option.
It may be that the wife gets confident with a larger auto and I may therefore settle for a Discovery Automatic or such like.
However, as both cars are worth around £5000 as a pair and are costing very little to maintain, It may be more prudent to wait and let the wife get more confidence behind the wheel of her car and all of us get serious value for money from the Discovery.
At least having all these cars means that while wife is out I can take children out plus friends and/or go and do a job and take the children with me if needed.
Thanks for the pointers. However it looks like we're stuck with 3 vehicles for now.
Don't tell the wife but I'm also after a decent tipper trailer!
H
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Hugo, you have only just bought the van, so it wouldn't really be a great idea to sell it now -- you'd lose lottsa money.
So the question is really whether you could ditch the Almera or the Discovery. It sounds like your wife couldn't live with the Discovery, so it's really the only candidate for the chop.
If you ditched it, one possibility would be to use the Almera for family trips: a bit of a squeeze perhaps after the Discovery, but if you tried it you'd probably be surprised at how well it works.
In the 70s, my father ditched his Cortina for a Chevette 3-dr hatch, and we all squeezed in (mum+dad, 2 teenagers + big dog) -- the main change needed was packing clothes in squashy kitbags rather than more solid cases, and we sometimes used a small trailer too. The Chevette was so much more refined than the Cortina that we all reckoned it was an improvement.
I'm sure that the van would also do fine for towing, unless you are towing very heavy things for very long distances.
You don't need to sell anything to try this out, and see how it works.
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The trailer option often seems to be overlooked.
We usually take mum in law, disabled brother in law and our two dogs on holiday a couple of times a year.
People go in the car, dogs in a cage in the boot (estate) and the luggage in a trailer and roof box.
The trailer cost £100 ten years ago and has been worth its weight in gold.
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>>Hugo, you have only just bought the van, so it wouldn't really be a great idea to sell it now -- you'd lose lottsa money. So the question is really whether you could ditch the Almera or the Discovery.
Well actually, to be a boring accountant for a moment, he's already lost the money on the van... and on the 2 cars... so it actually doesn't matter which one he sells.
What about one of those Huge American (Ford?) pickups with a double cab & a flat bed like a jumbo jet? With a truckman top. Then this does the job of the van & the disco.
If you really cannot face taking the tools out, then I'm afraid that you're stuck with the van. At that point, the question is: 'how much is it worth to me to be able to avoid having to unload my tools every time I need the car?' If it's worth 3k (or whatever the insurance & depreciation & servicing on your extra vehicle cost) then stick with 3 cars. If you suddenly think 'that's a lorra money for being 'lazy', then the other solution comes in.
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Thanks for that suggestion about getting shot of the disco - I forgot how much you hate 4 x 4s :)
The Nissan Almera is too small for all of us. I am 6'4" and my eldest daughter is 5'2" (only 2" shorter than the wife) and she is only 11, so she has plenty of growing to do.
It's not a question of won't fit in a smaller car but can't.
Having the van saves the family having to run around in a ruined car. I have had a few cars ruined by building materials etc. Even new unopened bags of cement and multifinish plaster have perfected seeping out much of their loads all over the boot area, Plus what do I do when I need more space for those 8 x 4 sheets? The twin cabs are out. None of them have a big enough loadspace and I HAVE to get those sheet materials inside.
One builder in the village gets away with driving a small escort van. He specialises in fitting double glazing. Either the windows are delivered or he can get them in the back of the van. It would simply not be practical to ask merchants to deliver the quantities of material I use on each job. I can never get them to respond quicly enouth and it usually works out quicker and simpler for me to go and get it on my way to the client's premesis. All the other builders in my area drive the bigger vans.
Mapmaker,
On the point of having to take my tools out every time I need the car.
If I just had one or two toolboxes plus a hammer drill, I would probably do just that
To empty the van properly and put everything away, takes me in excess of an hour. To put everything back takes me the same. It is not a question of being lazy but more of a question of "time that can't be spent on the job". In total I keep some 10 to 12 power tools, 20 plus boxes of screws, 2 large toolboxes, about 2 to 3 smaller ones, buckets of plasterers and mortar working tools, spirit levels, some commonly needed spares for plumbing, electrical, minor roof repairs..... sorry if I've lost everyone but you get the picture. Oh, I forgot, my ladder that sits on top.
Having to set aside the best part of 2 hours just to manage my tools every time I need to travel 15 minuits with the family down to the shops and back, is not a good use of my time.
Roughly speaking I would normally need my tools in the van every week day. Looking at the simplest scenario, assuming I needed to use the vehicle twice a week plus weekends, that is 6 hours per week loading and unloading tools, or 300 hours per year. An extra £3K P/A not to have to is an abslute bargain I can assure you, plus I get tax relief on depreciation and running costs.
I think I definitely need the van. The Almera is right for the wife to drive and as it's taken me nearly all our married life to get her back on the road, I would not like to take it away from her unless she was happy to go bigger. Plus I need a bigger car for me to drive as I can't drive anything smaller.
So for now it's 3 cars. OK I would not normally have bought a brand new van but I was fed up of looking at page after page of overpriced rubbish in the local papers, and I was offered a good deal.
Yes I could change the disco for an MPV but that would not get us down a car, the Disco is functionally suited to us in every way, rural, towing etc. And with the weather we tend to have in the South West, and having experienced Scotland the day the A9 was closed. I would be reluctant to be without a 4 x 4.
What I really need is a Land Rover Series 2 Forward Control. Unfortunately they haven't been made for over 30 years now!
H
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"I keep some 10 to 12 power tools, 20 plus boxes of screws, 2 large toolboxes, about 2 to 3 smaller ones, buckets of plasterers and mortar working tools, spirit levels, some commonly needed spares for plumbing, electrical, minor roof repairs..... sorry if I've lost everyone but you get the picture. Oh, I forgot, my ladder that sits on top."
Hope they don't get nicked! More and more craftsmen's vans seem to have a sign on the back saying "No tools are left in this vehicle overnight" - hope you have one! Come to think of it I could do with a new good quality hammer drill - but I think you live too far away!!!
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