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I once found out, at some cost and inconvenience - (£2200), where the air intake on my Clio Diesel was. It's very low down near front wheel, apparently to improve airflow through it. I DO NOT drive through deep fords any more. As winter's on it's way, does anyone have experience of other vehicles abilities to tackle deep water. You see adverts of 4x4 S.U.V's fording streams etc. I thought that my diesel would be OK in water. Plainly, I was foolish to try. A warning to others who may not be aware.
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Somewhere in the forum you'll find a thread entitled Floods, or something similar. Use the search button in the red bar, above.
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Get A series 111 Landrover. They go anywhere. (IMHO)
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KB,
Here is the start of my essay posted recently.
Author: David W (---.btinternet.com)
Date: 07-11-01 11:53
Two things recently have made me think about flood driving recently. The Land Rover I'm working on has been driven in water for far too long and the effects on the drivetrain are clear to see. Also was chatting to a chap who needed to have "flood capability" and we were wondering what was the best option.
Went round the yard with a tape and confirmed what is obvious I suppose, conventional vehicles and floods shouldn't mix. People do confuse the issues with driving through floods. There is a huge difference between what any vehicle might do in a dire emergency and what will be good for it long term......
As Martyn says Search will find the whole thing.
David
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saw a tv prog on boy racers, and when they went burning rubber down the sea front in a focus the cab filled up straight away with tyre fumes, seems air intake is down below in just the right place for this, dont take a focus through water...
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Many diesels have the air cleaner mounted low, but the intake is usually higher up. This is OK provided that the filter casing has been fitted properly around its gasket.
The usual advice when fording water is to run high revs in a low gear, but I'm not sure that this is necessary with a diesel. There are no sparks to worry about, so revving the engine seems pointless.
Also, diesels are not throttled, so they will ingest air through the filter at the rate of two potfuls per revolution. I think its' probably wise to travel VERY SLOWLY in order not to set up a "bow wave" that might get splashed up over the air filter intake, even if the air intake is high. Leave the gung-ho driving to the dip sticks with more money that sense!
Ian
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Ian,
Always thought the reason for keeping revs up was so the exhaust gas flow kept the pipe clear.
Again the reason for the bow wave is to push water out of the way to create a lower level in the engine compartment I believe.
I honestly feel these are techniques to get you out of spot, what all this water does to the rest of the car from bearings to electrics dread to think quite frankly.
Regards,
Stuart
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Can't let this one go....'I think it's probably wise to travel VERY SLOWLY in order not to set up a "bow wave" that might get splashed up over the air filter intake'
Must disagree with that. Sufficient speed to create a bow wave is going to help get a car through a flood with the least danger if the driver really feels they must. Travelling too slowly will allow water to rise within the engine bay whereas use of the front valance/bumper to move some of that water away will create a void of sorts underneath the engine compartment. Of course, you do not want the bow wave to break through the radiator air intake on to any vulnerable parts of the engine but skill is in getting the right combination of forward speed and bow wave. On balance, unless I was in a Citroen with hydraulic suspension, I would probably take the coward's way out and find another route but I have through necessity gone through a flood to knee depth with a modern car with big plastic bumpers thanks to to the bow wave technique.
David
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I'd advise extreme caution when going through water - like KB, I tried my luck last year with a ZX TD, and the result was a written off car when water was sucked into the engine.
With this in mind, I'd be especially careful with a diesel; I'm not sure the extra couple of inches the suspension lift would give you will be enough to avoid knackering your engine. Bit expensive to find out that it doesn't, so I'd agree with David and find another route.
If it's only a question of saving a few minutes by driving through, find another route. I lost transport for six weeks while the claim was being sorted.
Lee.
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Thanks to all for contributions. Where is the intake on a Landrover ? I've seen the snorkel conversion, but that still leaves the exhaust low down surely? I'm sure that the L/R is the best bet, but wondered about the less rugged "soft roaders" How do they get on?
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My only soft roader experience in water was with a hired Suzuki Vitara three years ago in Costa Rica. We'd passed through a 50m wide shallow river a few hours before without too much problem but then grounded for a couple of hours on a rutted track before turning back (fortunately there are always a couple of German mountain bikers around when you need a push). By this time the river had swollen from the night's rains and was running at 500mm. I walked it and worked out a route avoiding the biggest rocks. In the middle I met a party coming the other way in a Land-Rover Santana SWB with a local driver who was refusing to take his livelihood in there. We had no option so went for it without any trouble using the bow wave technique. I'm afraid I didn't check intake positioning first so don't recommend trying this at home. Fortunately, it also cleaned all the mud off the underside because the hire company checked underneath for offroading evidence when it went back.
I have also been fortunate enough to drive the Land-Rover 110 on the Eastnor Castle off-road course used by Land-Rover. The late owner, a most hospitable gentleman, insisted on swapping road tyres for some 'proper' military spec tyres he kept for his own use. They transformed the grip and the Defender sailed through the water features which were again designed for bow wave travel. From memory a bit more than 500mm but not that much. For truly muddy, wet jungle conditions I would choose the Defender or a G-wagon. The prevalence of Toyota Land Cruisers in dry rough desert areas suggests they may be more comfortable for that type of terrain.
David
PS: I heartily recommend Costa Rica for a once-in-a-lifetime holiday. There are a variety of 4WDs for self-drive hire in the capital San Jose but on the recommendation of others I would make very sure that any pre-existing dents or other damage are written down at the start of the hire, take before and after photographs to confirm, and check the tyres thoroughly. For normal tourism you don't need 4WD but a big one with higher vision might make you feel more secure on the Pan-American Highway and if you do want to go even a little way off the tarmac. However, a Vitara will not make it around the 'wrong' side of Lake Arenal!
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Be warned, 4X4 doesn't mean high air intake. The RAV4's is very low, as basically it is a car with jacked up suspesion. Things like Subaru's tend to have them at the upper part of the engine bay, but there is a limit to how high it can be. The best solution is to lift the bonnet and take a careful look. Proper 4X4's will also have a large filter box with a drain on it, so even if it does take in water, the filter box acts like a catchpot. A diesel is no more resistant to flooding than a petrol, as water in the engine brings the same result.
Proper 4X4's usually quote a safe wading depth, but these vehicles are getting a bit thin on the ground now, but the likes of LR discoverys, Land Cruisers and Nissan partrols have a wading depth of between 500-700mm.
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We've heard a lot about diesels sucking in water through a low air intake recently. Is there also a risk of thermal shock to a fully lit-up cat converter?
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Very much so Andrew and that advice is in most car handbooks.
David
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And presumably modern diesels have a cat similarly placed?? - and therefore at risk?? - they don't mention that in the ad's!
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(......that is to say the ad's showing rather purposeful 4x4's on the peak of a mountain or halfway across a river)
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Yes rather stupidly they do put cats on some more modern diesels, don't know about the newer diesel 4WDs because I don't have any on the books.
David
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