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I'm waiting for a few humbled remarks from those that have slated Alfa whilst I've been commenting on their marked improvements, but I guess I'll be helping satan with his ice skates before that happens.
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You'll now know to just what I was referring in the MG-Rover thread when I stated a few days ago that there was some good news for MG in the offing that would be made known today...:-))
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Not seen the details - but VAG are still blaming the ignition coil problem (which is still plaguing cars - ask my colleague with a Passat!).
One figure I read was 16% of E classes have broken down which doesn't sound very good, but look at the details and they only surveyed 44 E classes - so that's just 6 vehicle breakdowns.
Does anyone know if the survey was weighted on the number of each particular vehicle sold? In the above case the E-class represents 0.001% of the survey, do E classes make up 0.001% of the new vehicles sold in this country?
Also, what do they class as a breakdown?
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As far as I know each vehicle is expressed as a percentage of the sample for the vehicle.
I could post the full report but I imagine I would be breaking some kind of copyright law.
JaB
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from Ireland on-line at 212.2.162.45/news/story.asp?j=113109672&p=yy3yyx37...2
"Among the most reliable cars was Hyundai’s Getz. None of the 30 in the survey had broken down in the past year.
The same was true for MG’s ZT and ZT-T, Mazda’s 323 and Toyota’s Corolla and Corolla Verso models.
Close behind, with 99% reliability, were the Honda Civic, CR-V and Jazz, plus the Mazda 6, and Peugeot 406 and 406 Coupe."
So the best European model is French, bit I doubt that'll deter all the French-car-bashing in the backroom!
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from Ireland on-line at 212.2.162.45/news/story.asp?j=113109672&p=yy3yyx37...2 "Among the most reliable cars was Hyundais Getz. None of the 30 in the survey had broken down in the past year. The same was true for MGs ZT and ZT-T, Mazdas 323and Toyotas Corolla and Corolla Verso models. Close behind, with 99% reliability, were the Honda Civic, CR-V and Jazz, plus the Mazda 6, and Peugeot 406 and 406 Coupe." So the best European model is French, bit I doubt that'll deter all the French-car-bashing in the backroom!
Nope - the best European model is British. Please re-read and note that the MG ZT and ZT-T suffered no breakdowns - and therefore have a 100% record, AHEAD of Peugeots 99%.
Nice work MG.
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So the Rover 75 which is the same car isn't as reliable then ?
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I wonder if that's why Audi A4 drivers are so hung up about their dashboard quality? Gives them something tactile to bang their heads on while they are sat on the hard shoulder?
;)
I shouldn't laugh, but Oh deary me.
What a shame.
ROFLMAO
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What's this?
Is that a tumbleweed?
Strange how the german car drivers are so very quiet when a survey shows a different view...
Oh well.
JaB
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Strange how the german car drivers are so very quiet when a survey shows a different view...
I was going to point out that a survey is only as good as the sample size. And that my experience largely contradicts the results. But I realised that you Alfa drivers have been saying both for donkey's.
Then I realised that I don't think I've been an Alfa basher, so I mihght as well say them.
So there!
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My three VWs over the past 12 years - two Jettas and a Bora - have been the model of reliability over many, many thousands of miles.
By my reckoning that's a 100 per cent record unless anyone knows something I don't.
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Which reports. That well known bastion of the sensible & the sane.
So that a C&A white shirt wins its survey, whereas a Jermyn street shirt comes bottom. Catch me wearing a C&A polyester shirt? No way!
So that Romanian vinegar beats a delicious 1982 claret. Ha Ha Ha!
So that Kwik Save own label gin at 5.99 (30% abv) beats Tanqueray.
Of course German cars come bottom of a Which survey - they're not the cheapest.
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Of course German cars come bottom of a Which survey - they're not the cheapest.
If you take the time to read the report you'll see that price has nothing to do with it.
@stuartli
I'm very pleased your cars have been reliable for you but I'm afarid that as an owner of said cars your opinion is entirely worthless because you couldn't be expected to say anything else.
Sorry.
;-)
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We have owned four Fords (which country these are categorised at I don't know!) and three German cars. All the Fords broke down at least once, the German ones have never broken down.
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We have owned four Fords (which country these are categorised at I don't know!) and three German cars. All the Fords broke down at least once, the German ones have never broken down.
Well the report paints a different picture I'm afraid, sorry.
Of course it could be that the peolle that respond to the Which survey have an axe to grind or that VAG cars really are rubbish.
Who knows?
@mapmaker
Here's another thought for you to mull over while chewing your sour grapes.
All the reports of this type ( ie about cars reliablity or otherwise) generally agree that the japanese make the most reliable cars. Presumably they appear at the top of the Which report because they too are cheaper than BMW's ?
;)
JaB
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the German ones have never broken down.I would say the same for Rover.Never had one break down.
--
Was mech1
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[This response was prompted by daveyjp's post, under which I hope it will appear.]
35 years of driving, many company cars and latterly fewer private cars (see my profile) -- cannot recall anything ever breaking down. Flat batteries, yes; punctures, yes; a predictable noisy wheel bearing on the Audi; door-mirror heating element on the Golf. I must have been extremely lucky, although I would like to think that being sensitive to warning signs, sensible treatment and regular servicing have had something to do with it. My 1984 Cologne-built Capri 2.8i has yet to let me down, although it might have done had I not heeded the noise coming from the LSD (a generic problem of the model).
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That remark is uncalled for, tasteless and unwarranted; you demean yourself by actually putting it into print.
You should be utterly ashamed of yourself although, as you are prepared to go that far, it would be most unlikely.
As someone who has driven virtually every make of car (and most of the variants) on the planet and who has a pretty good idea of what is good and what is bad, I took the decision when buying my last three cars, from 1992, to buy a VW.
That theory over that time has never let me down.
If it was any other case I would not hesitate to say so.
I'm certainly not saying every VW product is reliable - merely that my own experience has been a happy one.
That's a far more realistic attitude than your snide aside.
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This is, of course, in reply to Just a Bloke.
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Stuartli - Didn't the ;) at the end of JaB's post indicate he wasn't being entirely serious in his 'condemnation'?
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>>Didn't the ;) at the end of JaB's post indicate he wasn't being entirely serious in his 'condemnation'?>>
Not as far as I am concerned nor, I would think, to those who merely read the cryptic remark.
If you want to use :-) and variants it's very much wiser to do so at the end of the sentence.
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That remark is uncalled for, tasteless and unwarranted; you demean yourself by actually putting it into print.
You should be utterly ashamed of yourself although, as you are prepared to go that far, it would be most unlikely. I'm certainly not saying every VW product is reliable - merely that my own experience has been a happy one.
Oh dear....
nothing like a little over-reaction to set lunch off to a good start.
That kind of remark is repeated to just about every Alfa owner each and every time we try to say well our cars are reliable.
While my reply was entirely TIC, when I am on the receiving end of such a remark it often isn't.
Sorry to have offended you but maybe us Alfa drivers are made of sterner stuff.
;-)
JaB
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Some of my most enjoyable driving experiences have been behind the wheel of an Alfa, especially when accompanied by the wonderful howl of the V6.
Going back to reliability and, in this case obviously Fiat Group products, I had a Miafiori 1.4 that was such a good car over its three years with me that I followed it up with a Regata 1.6S.
The only criticism of the Regata - and it was common to the model - was that the brakes were either fully on or fully off, nothing in between. Bit like the older Polo and often a harrowing experience.....:-)
By the way the Miafiori was the replacement for a Fiat based model, the Polonez...:-))
Drank petrol like water but you may be surprised to learn that I never had any doubts about going all over the country in it.
A mate at the time - now sadly deceased - went to all points of the UK in his Lada Riva and constantly lavished praise on it.
It takes all types you see.
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C&A!!!!!!!
When was the last time you bought a shirt Mapmaker? :)
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>>V-man: C&A
Well, that was the point I was making...
Which reports certainly tell you something. Whether they answer the question that you would have asked is quite another matter. Read them. Then take a pinch of salt. That's all I was suggesting. What do we know about their sampling techniques? Let alone Teabelly's normalisations etc. etc. etc.
I didn't realise that I was putting a flock of cats amongst a herd of pigeons!
I've got absolutely no axe to drive. I drive a German car that is in its second decade, and dates from a period when they were probably the best. If I were buying new now, I'd be going for a Jap.
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And the VW man's point about two virtually identical cars coming at opposite ends of the spectrum '?The sample size for the survey is very small,? he said. "It is also very curious to us that the VW Bora is classed near the top for reliability and the Golf, which is technically almost identical, is low down.?' says it all about Which? reports.
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And the VW man's point about two virtually identical cars coming at opposite ends of the spectrum '?The sample size for the survey is very small,? he said. "It is also very curious to us that the VW Bora is classed near the top for reliability and the Golf, which is technically almost identical, is low down.?' says it all about Which? reports.
Personally I think it says it all about EVERY REPORT OF THIS TYPE PRODUCED.
They all suffer from exactly the same problem: Too many variables being present to allow for a fair objective trial, combined with the fact that, like it or not, every single reply to one of these surveys is, to some extent, subjective and biased.
Stuartli: Calm down, all JaB said to you was exactly what Alfa owners have to put up with every time a reliability survey is trotted out for our perusal. The difference is that it is said to us in all seriousness, while JaB clearly said it to you jokingly, therefore I would say you should take less offence, rather than more.
In fact, I bet if you put 'your opinion in invalid, as an owner you are biased' into the search engine on here, you'd get hundreds of Alfa-based hits :D
Mind you, as an ex-journo, I can imagine that suggestions of bias on your part would be quite serious from your pov, be sure that JaB meant no offence though.
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Your last paragraph says it all...:-)
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