Catterick Garrison has recently been given some bicycle lanes. They are covered in smart green aggregate and are marked with bicycle line drawings in white paint - very professional. Yesterday I was intrigued to see two young mums with pushchairs accompanied by a 5-year-old (I guess) riding a tiny motorised replica faired motor-bike in the cycle lane. The child seemed to have the machine well under control but had no head protection of any kind. I wondered what the licencing position was or whether these small bikes are exempt, and whether they were allowed/encouraged to use cycle lanes.
PS this is not a rant, I'm just curious.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Doesn't need Licence, Insurance, Test Certificate, Excise Licence, Helmet, comply with Con and Use. Can drive under the influence, carelessly etc etc. In fact he can do what the L he likes. Why?
Section 50 (as amended Children and Young Persons Act, 1933 :
No child under 10 years can be guilty of an offence.
(Ignored at this time of night whether it is a motor vehicle)
DVD
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DVD usually seems to know what he's talking about. But just to be clear, If you or I were on that bike we'd be guilty of several offences. It's just cos he's a kid that apparently (according to DVD) nothing can be done.
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was kev_is_here
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What about causing or permitting? Or does that not apply if the full offence cannot be committed?
(DVD, as far as I can tell, always knows what he's talking about.)
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Assuming it wasn't a petrol powered machine and ran from an electric motor it would be classed as a childs toy, I would assume.
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You're not referring to one of these are you:
pocketbike.com/
If so, the mother should be locked up for the safety of her own children.
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and ran from an electric motor it would be classed as a childs toy....
Or electric wheelchair / mobility scooter.
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>>Or electric wheelchair
It was one of these that rode into my rovers rear passenger door.then claimed on my insurance.Though I did win the case.
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Was mech1
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Ahhh David HM you posed that with a wry smile did you not for you know we now go into an area that makes Solicitors that rich they can drive around in BMW's and have a LR90 as a play thing.
No child under 10 years can be Guilty of an offence. Does this mean that an offence can be committed by an under 10 but cannot be processed or does it mean that there is no offence for an under 10. If there is no principle offence then there cannot be an aid and abet? But there is case law that where a principle is aquitted of an offence an aider and abetter was convicted. I don't have a wig in the wardrobe to quantify, more in your line.
Neither do I have acess any more to back copies of The Justice of The Peace for I feel sure there will be a stated case somewhere.(Seem to recall a parent that sent their under 10 shoplifting, whilst the issue got off they were convicted).
But on another tack. Is the motor bike a motor vehicle constructed or adapted for use on a road?. Would a normal person look at it and say yes. Doubtful as we have Tom Shaw saying its a toy, so RTA's etc doesn't apply. But there again a Go-ped has been held to a motor vehicle so again its down for a money making session by the Legal profession.
Sorry but this fence is comfortable.
DVD
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Presumably Catterick Garrison is a military site, so normal traffic regulations might not apply - for instance vehicles used internally might not need tax, insurance or MOT. As for driving licences, I believe that a driving licence is necessary to drive wherever 'the public has access', be it a road, car park, green lane or whatever.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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The status of the Garrison land is an interesting issue.
When I first left Uni I had a temporary job as a porter at a large hospital in London. This was designated crown property.
On my first day I was asked to take a mid sized refuse vehicle around the hospital, I pointed out that I had no licence and my sole experience at my tender age was limted to driving tractors. No problem said the head porter this is crown land now get in and move it. And so the year passed driving all sorts of things with no licence. Some of the other porters were banned from the highway for various reasons but no problem on crown land.
Now this was OK because we were crown employees (at the time) but I doubt the child mentioned above will be.
as always
Mark
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The status of the Garrison land is an interesting issue. When I first left Uni I had a temporary job as a porter at a large hospital in London. This was designated crown property. On my first day I was asked to take a mid sized refuse vehicle around the hospital, I pointed out that I had no licence and my sole experience at my tender age was limted to driving tractors. No problem said the head porter this is crown land now get in and move it. And so the year passed driving all sorts of things with no licence. Some of the other porters were banned from the highway for various reasons but no problem on crown land.
To add to the interest, but off at a tangent, crown property e.g. barracks are not subject to planning or building regulations. In the interests of good practice, most of the buildings that i have dealt with went through planning and building regs
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What difference will that make if no protection is worn.I thought that was the point.would you allow it?
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Was mech1
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Is it true that crown agencies have a degree of immunity from prosecution?
Cheers, SS
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Hi SS
Without taking this thread too far from where it started Crown property and what can and cannot happen in it, on it or by those employed there is a weird and complex issue.
After leaving the NHS I worked for a number of Departments and managed staff. At all the buildings I worked (until the early 1990s)there was no public or employers liability insurance in place as the crown would meet a settlement from Exchequer funds were one to be made. I have a hazy memory of other exemptions that applied.
as always
Mark
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>>there was no public or employers liability insurance in place
Also very sensible piece of law. The state is such a large employer that with the balance of probabilities it would be paying huge premiums annually to get most of it back in claims (but after paying for the entire staff of an insurance company!)
Self insurance is the way forward for a large enough organisation.
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A classic piece of Yes, Minister is when Hacker asks why Government buildings are exempt from fire regulations.
Sir Humphrey explains that this is because "Her Majesty's civil servants are not easily inflamed, Minister".
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A couple of points;
It was not a pocket bike as on that site, but it was definitely petrol-engined. The cycle lane adjoins the barracks (crown property) but I forget which barracks.
No, I categorically would not permit my child to ride a bike like that without head protection. Youngest has to wear a helmet even when batting round the garden on his 20-year old chopper pedal bike.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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If it had a petrol engine then it would be classed as a motor vehicle and would need to be taxed and insured, with the rider holding the appropriate licence.
If the land it was on had public access then the Road Traffic Act would apply to all vehicles using it, even if it were privately owned, unless different regs apply to military bases.
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